Endless Tagging in Battle

[Thanatos]

I will keep this short and sweet. I was in a 1v1 battle with a french frigate against my gros venture.

 

The entire battle consisted of him shooting me with his two chasers for an hour. 

 

This mechanic is ridiculous. We all know chasers are very valuable in a battle but doing negligible damage every 15 seconds to keep someone in battle is a little silly.

 

There should be a damage limit to keep another player in combat.

 

Another possible route is to adjust the battle timer depending on the amount and rating of the ships involved. Having a 1v1 last an entire 90 minutes because of chasers tagging one person just running away cannot be an intended feature. I'm not saying drop the timer to 10 minutes for a 1v1 but 90 minutes is a bit much. 

 

But I think the easiest way to fix this is to have a damage threshold that must be met to reset the 'cannot leave' timer. 

 

I have attached a picture of the damage log for some of the battle. At the time of writing this I am still in the battle at the 30 minute mark.

 

 

As you can see he has kept me in battle for 50 minutes doing 2.6 damage per shot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B4N4N4J0E]

I agree with your point.

Basicly it is a waste of time if the follower will never be able to catch up.

He should have stopped firing.

 

But on the other hand, this mechanic is used to keep players in a battle for reasons (screening for PBs). 

 

Maybe a second timer would be a solution. If you are out of a certain distance, didn´t suffer a certain amount of damage in the past ~10-15 Minutes and maybe your sails are still >90% (after/before repairing the sails).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Yeah.

 

Still it is fun to waste 90 minutes of gankers on a 1v6, while they keep chasing and tagging now and then.

Coffee, a book chapter, a dozen email exchanges and a sandwich later they finally realised how dumb they are trying to have such uneven fights. Had my share of fun away from the screen

 

Have yet to think about a definite system but I agree on a damage amount over a period of time.

[Sven Silberbart]

_{Dont see a Need to Change. This game ia a bit of simulation and no combat game.}

_{Maybe increase the sail damage from the front/back cannons to make those situations a bit less use of time.}

Edited May 11, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Sail damage was thoroughly tested during all the iterations of sea trials. No change needed especially towards more damage.

[Eishen]

Yeah.

 

Still it is fun to waste 90 minutes of gankers on a 1v6, while they keep chasing and tagging now and then.

Coffee, a book chapter, a dozen email exchanges and a sandwich later they finally realised how dumb they are trying to have such uneven fights. Had my share of fun away from the screen

 

Have yet to think about a definite system but I agree on a damage amount over a period of time.

 

I agree with your anti-ganking punish system  ... but not in a pure DPS escape "timer" as solution, we need one than combine damage and distance increase/decrease  ...in fact is distance that matters, DPS wold only qualify as a posibility to inflict sufficient damage to break sail ..and so decrease distance.

 

Making a dual distance variation/DPS system would also help avoid the "no chasers" problem (when you are much quicker but cannot maintain fire) while not making chasers dud (as they would count in the DPS modifier).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Disagree. I can imagine how it will be in battle vs swerige players, who run from you constantly. Now it takes around 20 minutes to sink at least one runner. If they get ability to leave being chased I won't play this game anymore.

 

Sure. To each its own.

 

Twenty minutes is acceptable. Many runners will be able to keep entire battle length.

 

What makes this possible ? Closure rates maybe ?

 

A compromise is needed.

[Quineloe]

Keeping someone in battle for over an hour when you have no chance to catch them or no intent to fight them, just to prevent them from playing the game is really something we want in this game?

Is your time worth so little?

[Long Beard]

I will keep this short and sweet. I was in a 1v1 battle with a french frigate against my gros venture.

 

The entire battle consisted of him shooting me with his two chasers for an hour. 

 

This mechanic is ridiculous. We all know chasers are very valuable in a battle but doing negligible damage every 15 seconds to keep someone in battle is a little silly.

 

There should be a damage limit to keep another player in combat.

 

Another possible route is to adjust the battle timer depending on the amount and rating of the ships involved. Having a 1v1 last an entire 90 minutes because of chasers tagging one person just running away cannot be an intended feature. I'm not saying drop the timer to 10 minutes for a 1v1 but 90 minutes is a bit much. 

 

But I think the easiest way to fix this is to have a damage threshold that must be met to reset the 'cannot leave' timer. 

 

I have attached a picture of the damage log for some of the battle. At the time of writing this I am still in the battle at the 30 minute mark.

 

20160510232056_1.jpg

 

As you can see he has kept me in battle for 50 minutes doing 2.6 damage per shot. 

 

Totally disagree

 

Battle damage to keep a person in battle is a game mechanic. In the real world, they didn't need to constantly shoot to stay on your tail, they would chase you until they caught you, even if it took a day. Which would you prefer?

 

The longest they can keep you in battle is 1 hour 30 mins. If you don't have 1 hour 30 mins to sail, then I would suggest you don't sail an attractive trade ship.

 

Ok, I can see the argument if they are matching your speed, but they are most likely trying to shoot your sails so they can change that.

I have been in many long chases, dropping their sails very slowly. Some have escaped, but some It's taken an hour to eventually catch. If there's even a small chance I can catch my prey, I'll try.

This is a game for the patient. 

[Jean Ribault]

Totally disagree

 

Battle damage to keep a person in battle is a game mechanic. In the real world, they didn't need to constantly shoot to stay on your tail, they would chase you until they caught you, even if it took a day. Which would you prefer?

 

The longest they can keep you in battle is 1 hour 30 mins. If you don't have 1 hour 30 mins to sail, then I would suggest you don't sail an attractive trade ship.

 

Ok, I can see the argument if they are matching your speed, but they are most likely trying to shoot your sails so they can change that.

I have been in many long chases, dropping their sails very slowly. Some have escaped, but some It's taken an hour to eventually catch. If there's even a small chance I can catch my prey, I'll try.

This is a game for the patient. 

 

 

I can find no flaw in this argument.

[Thanatos]

Totally disagree

 

Battle damage to keep a person in battle is a game mechanic. In the real world, they didn't need to constantly shoot to stay on your tail, they would chase you until they caught you, even if it took a day. Which would you prefer?

 

The longest they can keep you in battle is 1 hour 30 mins. If you don't have 1 hour 30 mins to sail, then I would suggest you don't sail an attractive trade ship.

 

Ok, I can see the argument if they are matching your speed, but they are most likely trying to shoot your sails so they can change that.

I have been in many long chases, dropping their sails very slowly. Some have escaped, but some It's taken an hour to eventually catch. If there's even a small chance I can catch my prey, I'll try.

This is a game for the patient.

 

If you don't want to change the battle timer how about we look at chasers. 

 

During that battle I was in the faster ship doing 12.3kn while he was probably around 11.8kn.

 

Admittedly over the course of an hour he got my sails to 85% and I eventually turned around to get it over with. It was only the chasers that gave the attacker a chance to catch up.  

 

I know that historically chasers were used in this exact fashion and I know the position of devs on making this game realistic. But this is a game, one that I have dropped 500+ hours into. This is an amazing game and I enjoy *almost* every minute of it. This type of battle is extremely uninteractive for both parties. The attacker is hitting space bar every 30 sec and the defender is doing nothing, absolutely nothing and just watching the timer get reset. I can't say this isn't enjoyable because everyone plays the way they want. Maybe this will be different when there is type of reinforcement in the form of ships or towers and this argument is just a waste of air. Surely you understand where I'm coming from. 

 

There are numerous ways to fix/change this. 

[DeRuyter]

The key is whether you are able to open the range and sail out of his chasers range or make him miss a couple of shots allowing escape. To your situation the LGV should be faster than a frigate close hauled, generally speaking). If the chasing ship is faster and hitting you I am not sure we want to limit that scenario.

[Ledinis]

Unpopular opinion, but would much rather prefer if you could leave a battle only when you reach a certain distance from the enemy. It is borderline stupid how you can literally be 1 meter away from the enemy and warp jump if he doesn't hit you for 1:30 mins. 

[Vernon Merrill]

Soooo... He caught you and you're mad that he caught you? If you didn't want to fight you could have surrendered at any time. To me it just sounded like he had more patience than you. Not being critical, just stating that he used his ship to his advantage.

[OTMatt]

If you are going to get caught... surrender. Save yourself the time. Or run, and give yourself the option of escape with the possibility that you'll still be plinked down and be caught. 

 

Yeah, I mean all the time we argue here that a captain should honorably surrender his ship rather than take it off survival and let it sink. Its the same thing if a player cant accept the long chase due to real life reasons.

 

Rather than argue for a game focused around trincos and their chasers it would be better to have a more diverse set of ships that depend on their sailing performance to run down the enemy.

[Paint]

Soooo... He caught you and you're mad that he caught you? If you didn't want to fight you could have surrendered at any time. To me it just sounded like he had more patience than you. Not being critical, just stating that he used his ship to his advantage.

Well he really couldnt have any chance to escape. nothing beeing bout patience or advantage, a LGV doesnt really have much advantages over a frigate unless some more speed but dont quote me on that. So yeah. Running was his best chance.

[Hussar]

I would like 5 or 10 min initial timer then based on proximity   1min at 1000meters, 2min at 800m,  4min etc  or something to that effect...  (off the top of my head)

[Eishen]

....

I know that historically chasers were used in this exact fashion

 

....This type of battle is extremely uninteractive for both parties. The attacker is hitting space bar every 30 sec and the defender is doing nothing, absolutely nothing and just watching the timer get reset

 

 

front chasers can be quite historical accurate represented......but what about stern chasers? as Thanatos describes a defender/runner in their brains does never use them, as they are simply waiting for the timer and not really worried so much about putting distance/ruining pursuer sails.

 

Battle finisher    (IMHO of course) is there simply to avoid a battle/pursuit being carried for too long  when it has no real posibility  of resolve by itself.  

 

  under current system (only damage based) this "fumbles" are quite common :

  -  unmasted ships "running" away from pistol range because boarders forget putting one ball on it 

  -  slow  ships escaping from  renowns that needs ti fire tham with a board every 90 secs.

  -  slow ships with pursuits chasers maintaining battles with 1 lucky hit for ridiculous long time 

 

a more balanced system should take in account three factors

     distance, relative speeds and  damage    ...this can sound overcomplicate but in fact it can be so simple as "restarting" the 1:30 counter  when it runs to zero if the relative distance form a ship to their enemys if a fixed% lower than in the previous check