A sink, no kill or assist.

[Kloothommel]

Can somebody explain how this happened... 

 

And if it's exploit or bug....

[xAzDKr]

Too many leaks, not enough damage done by anybody for the kill or assist to be triggered. A certain # of damage is required to get an assist and a certain % of total damage done is required to get the kill. When a lot of leaks are done, a ship can sink before the damage requirement is met. It's a very annoying loophole in the system.

[admin]

To reduce kill xp farming by ramming or surrendering kills are given only if you actually destroyed the ship. Thus you might not get kill xp in several cases. 

perhaps it needs to be reviewed

 

in addition our view is this

xp replicates battle experience. If your enemy sinks himself with no influence from your vessel perhaps you would not gain battle experience in real life? 

so if enemy kills himself for some reason - you are not getting battle xp

 

but main reason is xp farming.

[Kloothommel]

to reduce kill xp farming by ramming or surrendering kills are given only if you actually destroyed the ship. 

perhaps it needs to be reviewed

Right now it feels like pvp griefing. You get attacked, turn off survival and deny the enemy the kill. 

 

We outmanouvred him outside CS and this feels like an empty victory this way.

[Eishen]

....especially if the enemy decided he did not want to fight those odds and deactivate survival mode to not allow being captured

[Kloothommel]

in addition our view is this

xp replicates battle experience. If your enemy sinks himself with no influence from your vessel perhaps you would not gain battle experience in real life? 

so if enemy kills himself for some reason - you are not getting battle xp

 

but main reason is xp farming.

 

But when you shoot leaks in his ship on purpose by shooting near his waterline causing it to sink, don't you deserve a reward for that?

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

But when you shoot leaks in his ship on purpose by shooting near his waterline causing it to sink, don't you deserve a reward for that?

 

One less enemy ship to worry about I guess.

 

I second Eishen.

[xAzDKr]

Technically it's an empty Bellona

[admin]

Right now it feels like pvp griefing. You get attacked, turn off survival and deny the enemy the kill. 

 

 

 

again i would ask. Enemy sank without fighting

what XP did your crew get?

 

Also. He sank. On rear admiral rank you wont get any xp for this anyway.

Victory is victory. does not matter if you get a reward or not. Enemy lost a vessel you did not.

 

but yes its annoying sometimes

[Kloothommel]

again i would ask. Enemy sank without fighting

what XP did your crew get?

 

Also. He sank. On rear admiral rank you wont get any xp for this anyway.

Victory is victory. does not matter if you get a reward or not. Enemy lost a vessel you did not.

 

but yes its annoying sometimes

 

I got 139 xp.

 

And I am not yet top rank, 25k-ish to go.

[Quineloe]

Thus you might not get kill xp in several cases. 

perhaps it needs to be reviewed

 

Please do, in the Mugeres PB yesterday multiple british ships were sunk with high armor because the Spanish ships punched carronade holes below the water line when the target was in a favorable position

This is legit play with high skill, and it's punished in a way by not awarding the kills for doing so. It's also not trivial to pull off, as you either need to repeatedly hit someone or score 8 or 9 leaks in one broadside (which is pretty hard with 10 guns), as 6 leaks will not sink a Mercury

 

By the way, at rear admiral you still need money, and not getting a kill on a Bellona means not getting 55k.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Quineloe

[Baron Von WeisenCracker]

+1 to this topic.

 

MY group and I are doing fleet missions almost every night (PvE) - and we have this issue happen just as often. Typically there are 8-12 ships per side... we close. We get into a somewhat line formation (of sorts) .. and as the enemy vessels (AI) pass through, we shoot them (All the while, they are shooting at us) --- and as will happen ... often ... one comes through with little damage by the time he hits the "last guy" in line, before being shot at definitively. But will receive multiple leaks from that last guy. Anywhere from 6-12 leaks. TO wit... he simply floats off to the side, and sinks! NOONE gets credit... no one gets XP, and no one gets Gold for that kill.

 

Aside from the DAMAGE he (AI) inflicted on his passing through our ships -- he was basically not even there -- in regards to accountability!

 

I managed to do that to 2 ships in the same battle --  a bit annoying for aiming so destructively, I suppose. And it did rid the battlefield of 2 ships... but a let down in NOT getting any credit for it!

[LittleJP]

Maybe take leaks into consideration? Say, 8 leaks will get someone the kill/assist, and whomever deals the most leaks below the waterline, then factor in damage and etc.

[Babble]

So what happens when you fight a boat and shoot the shit out of it and right before it sinks it surrenders and you dont get credit for the kill in XP or gold.

 

Sure you get some XP and gold for damage done but you done get the 5k for a kill.

 

 

Shouldn't you?

[Kloothommel]

Maybe take leaks into consideration? Say, 8 leaks will get someone the kill/assist, and whomever deals the most leaks below the waterline, then factor in damage and etc.

 

 

So what happens when you fight a boat and shoot the shit out of it and right before it sinks it surrenders and you dont get credit for the kill in XP or gold.

 

Sure you get some XP and gold for damage done but you done get the 5k for a kill.

 

 

Shouldn't you?

 

 

 

+1 to this topic.

 

MY group and I are doing fleet missions almost every night (PvE) - and we have this issue happen just as often. Typically there are 8-12 ships per side... we close. We get into a somewhat line formation (of sorts) .. and as the enemy vessels (AI) pass through, we shoot them (All the while, they are shooting at us) --- and as will happen ... often ... one comes through with little damage by the time he hits the "last guy" in line, before being shot at definitively. But will receive multiple leaks from that last guy. Anywhere from 6-12 leaks. TO wit... he simply floats off to the side, and sinks! NOONE gets credit... no one gets XP, and no one gets Gold for that kill.

 

Aside from the DAMAGE he (AI) inflicted on his passing through our ships -- he was basically not even there -- in regards to accountability!

 

I managed to do that to 2 ships in the same battle --  a bit annoying for aiming so destructively, I suppose. And it did rid the battlefield of 2 ships... but a let down in NOT getting any credit for it!

 

 

 

Please do, in the Mugeres PB yesterday multiple british ships were sunk with high armor because the Spanish ships punched carronade holes below the water line when the target was in a favorable position

This is legit play with high skill, and it's punished in a way by not awarding the kills for doing so. It's also not trivial to pull off, as you either need to repeatedly hit someone or score 8 or 9 leaks in one broadside (which is pretty hard with 10 guns), as 6 leaks will not sink a Mercury

 

By the way, at rear admiral you still need money, and not getting a kill on a Bellona means not getting 55k.

 

All of this as well.

[Kloothommel]

Here we go again. Right between CS and Viques.

 

Same clan btw. This way it's no fun or rewarding to hunt gankers.

 

Please adress this issue.

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Kloothommel

[Tiedemann]

This is a serous problem. Solution, lock on survival! Just like when you get boarded and crew automatically go into survival.

[Slamz]

Victory is victory. does not matter if you get a reward or not. Enemy lost a vessel you did not.

 

I feel like this should apply to rewards, too. "Victory is victory", doesn't matter how he sank. I sank him? He rammed his own ally and sank? He turned off survival and sank after the first broadside?

 

Regardless of how he sank, I won, he lost, whatever rewards there are for victory should go to me.

 

 

Saying I shouldn't get XP because my crew didn't really learn anything doesn't make much sense -- the XP bar does not represent the crew, and my crew doesn't "level up" or get better at fighting as a result of XP. To the extent that XP represents anything at all, it seems to represent "battles won" and therefore "rights to sail bigger ships".

 

Does it really matter how I won?

 

Victory is victory!

This is a serous problem. Solution, lock on survival! Just like when you get boarded and crew automatically go into survival.

 

I kind of like this idea too. Maybe we just shouldn't be able to turn off survival. How much historical precedent is there for a captain telling his crew to "sit there and drown" (or "sit there and die in a fire").

 

If anything, turning off survival should show an animation of the crew throwing the captain overboard and then it turns into an NPC ship and you lose your durability.    Mutiny!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Slamz

[Bommel]

Denying the enemy to capture your ships is a valid tactic imho. There is no "self destrcution button" you need to get damaged enough and/or be in a position to be able to ram your ship into others, before turning off survival has any effect.

If a captain decides to let his ship sink rather than giving it to the enemy, I´m totally fine with that.

If the enemy team decides to ram each other to sink their ships it´s valid too.

 

I agree on the point that is it annoying to not get awarded for the kill, but that is to prevent xp farming.

 

And the argument: "No captain would have commanded their to sit back and let the ships explode/burn/sink is not valid. Who says the crew would stay on board and waiting to sink/explode/burn, they would/could go over board and try to survive that way.

[Kloothommel]

Denying the enemy to capture your ships is a valid tactic imho. There is no "self destrcution button" you need to get damaged enough and/or be in a position to be able to ram your ship into others, before turning off survival has any effect.

If a captain decides to let his ship sink rather than giving it to the enemy, I´m totally fine with that.

If the enemy team decides to ram each other to sink their ships it´s valid too.

 

I agree on the point that is it annoying to not get awarded for the kill, but that is to prevent xp farming.

 

And the argument: "No captain would have commanded their to sit back and let the ships explode/burn/sink is not valid. Who says the crew would stay on board and waiting to sink/explode/burn, they would/could go over board and try to survive that way.

 

Denying the enemy XP is trolling and should be considered griefing.

[Bommel]

Well do they sink their ships to deny you from getting xp or from denying you to capture the ship?

And where do you draw the line? Is escaping from battle a form of griefing too? I mean they deny you xp and fun this way.

 

If you have superior forces you can demast him to disable him from ramming anyone and then get close to board him.

[Reorx Redbeard]

I scored 9 leaks in 1 broad side on an AI mercury wich did send the ship to the bottom of the sea. But I did't get a kill for it. :-(

[delaine]

had that happen where i leak sank a few npcs when soloing fleet orders woulda been nice if they lasted longer so i coulda gotten the kill and ya know gotten the xp from it should be a new catagory on the end for "leak kill" would give maybe 25 xp and 2k

[HardyKnox]

"Scuttling" ships to deny them or their cargo to the enemy is an old and valid tactic.   Infuriating to the "winner" In a battle, but such is war.

 

See "Ten Famous Ships That Were Scuttled (Sunk by Their Own Crews) at http://www.historyandheadlines.com/10-famous-ships-scuttled-sunk-crews/

[Kloothommel]

I'm not talking about denying prizes. 

 

I'm talking about denying kills.