War and Port battles rework - moderated

[admin]

Please only talk about port battles and port battle mechanics.

 

Port capture

• Port conquest will be slowed down.
• 7 day cool downs will be implemented for port captures - if you captured a port its yours for 7 days (maybe should be longer)
• Losing or capturing a port should be a national effort. 
• Losing or capturing a port should be a big event 

Instantly available port battles should be avoided to give defenders time to prepare: thus port battles should be announced 1-2 days in advance. This can be done either by just announcing port as a attack target (can be false) or by raiding. Raiding the port opens it for the attack. During the raid you don't capture the port but steal some goods from it and maybe weaken its defenses - destroy forts. Raids can be done any time. 

 

Time zone problem remains unsolved and is managed by the timers. But because there are no instantly available port battles everyone can prepare a defense or attack for the required time. Time for attack becomes shorter. Timer is set once and can only be changed if you just captured the port. 

 

 

Port battles

 

Battle circle of death will be removed 

Towers will be removed from the goal 

BR difference will be removed from the goal

3 capture zones will be added to port battles

 

to win the port battle you have to do one of the following 

• destroy enemy fleet completely
• capture 2 of the 3 capture zones
• if attacker only controls 1 capture zone defenders will win the battle
• Zones won't be close to each other so attacker must split the fleet bringing more tactical depth
• For the defender they have to also control 2 zones so they also have to split the fleet
• Forts will provide defence - but might be giving points for victory
• Because of land some ports will become uncapturable if defenders come
• Initially all forts will be automatically placed.
• Eventually defenders will build them in ports

Victory points are determined by the following

• Losing ships loses points based on the BR of the vessel
• Killing ships gives points based on the BR of the vessel
• Controlling zones gives points 
• Zone can be captured by any ship
• If enemy ship is present in the zone capture stops and the enemy must be destroyed first
• The zone will be 1 -1.5 km in diameter to disable trolling and line hugging

 

 

Wars

This is just an idea for the discussion. If the suggestions will be simple and easy to implement we will code them in. If it will be deemed too confusing we will keep the old - constant war mechanics.

 

Wars must be declared.

1. Wars cost money
2. Wars have limited time. 
3. You can only capture ports during war
4. War can be won once the nation reaches certain number of the war effort points
5. War gives rewards in form of ships, ranks, xp etc.

War effort points are gained by

1. PVP against the war target

2. Port battles

3. Raids

4. Building and supplying front line or raided cities (repairing infrastructure)

5. PVP missions

6. PVE missions in war zones

 

This gives everyone the opportunity to influence the war and decide on its result

 

Ports are lost ONLY if the war is won. 

Once war ends peace agreement is automatically signed for some time and ports change hands based on the war effort difference. Before that ports remain contested and available for both nations. 

 

 

content and changed will be added to this post as edits once good ideas start coming in the comments.

[Thonys]

Do we get a button>  declare war (for 7 days )>>  per clan/ admiralty/squadron/ or > (alliance or nation)  ?

 

if so: we need clan wars >  with color scheme (friendly or foe ) first

         with flags on OW for identity(or clan tag) and identification (EVE situation)

Edited April 26, 2016 by Thonys

[Vaan De Vries]

 

Wars must be declared.

 

Now goes probably the MOST important questions: by WHOM? Devs, clans, individual players/trolls? Will it be possible for various clans to declare war with every nation? If most of the clans/active PVP players doesn't want to fight against certain nation, but troll clan of some 20+ people (NOT looking and DRUNK right now) declares war on that nation thus provoking retaliation - what should everyone else do?

 

IMHO without stable diplomacy system driven either by DEVs or players (through clan council or voting system) PB changes will be very incomplete. It's like implementing land in battle without thinking about tagging (infamous 1.5BR rule and postitional reinforcements) all over again.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Vaan De Vries

[Wyspa]

Now goes probably the MOST important questions: by WHOM? Devs, clans, individual players/trolls? Will it be possible for various clans to declare war with every nation? If most of the clans/active PVP players doesn't want to fight against certain nation, but troll clan of some 20+ people (NOT looking and DRUNK right now) declares war on that nation thus provoking retaliation - what should everyone else do?

 

IMHO without stable diplomacy system driven either by DEVs or players (through clan council or voting system) PB changes will be very incomplete. It's like implementing land in battle without thinking about tagging (infamous 1.5BR rule and postitional reinforcements) all over again.

 

Read this topic: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13596-such-is-a-lord-simple-politics-and-alliances-part-1-heavily-moderated/

If I understand correctly, wars are declared by parliament by voting.

 

As of Wars I think that Ports should be captured only during Wartime, however Raiding should be open as long as there is no alliance between nations. 

At the same time exchanging ports at the war end and ending the war based on some kind of automaton is not the best idea.

It would be nice if You could implement some kind of Warscore but more like let's say Europa Universalis IV. So basically it would be up to parliament when to declare peace, and wining side can demand what ports to keep based on warscore (ports cost in warscore should differ). At the same time loosing side could offer tribute and if the tribute "outscores" actual enemy Warscore it is automatically accepted, so the losing side can keep themselves from total anihilation if they are willing to give some of their lands to the enemy.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Wyspa

[Sella]

 

1. Wars cost money

 

How about implementing "Warbonds" or something similar to simulate the buildup before the war or a port capture? Once the decision is taken to declare war a certain amount of Warbonds must be sold before the war triggers. Warbonds cost money,goods maybe even ships. The people who bought warbonds will receive an xp or money boost depending on their contribution. The boosts will be only valid against the targeted faction.

 

Warbonds could also influence the lenght of the war since they will have a limited time.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Sella22

[Konali89]

This sounds amazing:) 

At first you stated, you can raid at any time, but i suppose this is only against nations you are at war with right. And war would be declared by the top 50 estate holders ( see politics post).

 

War should have an ecomomical and territorial element to it, slightly off topic here but since any nation currently can survive with  4 different port producing types, what is keeping the pubbies from moving away from their capital. Maybe production buildings should have some advantages near front lines in regards to supplying for the war.

 

Love the read, nice work guys.

[SphinX]

I don't think a War mechanic is needed. Perhaps a simple voting system (above the 5th rank, 200 crew+) for the entire nation for port attacks. Takes 2-3 days of voting, if it has more than 50% votes in favor of it, then it's broadcast to the server.

 

Server time can be used to plan the attack time, and the voting involves choosing a time (time with most votes in favor of the attack is selected).

 

Attacks happen on a Saturday or Sunday (for the US server) at the selected time, incorporating the proposed battle mechanics.

 

I think everyone should have a say in whether a port is attacked or not, not just the few that have gotten the most points in the other proposed mechanic...

[Ned Loe]

From reading all this I can say you are on the right track. If this implemented correctly, you will have another strong foundation to what you have already built.

 

Port Battles (Suggestions)

 

I like the idea for 1-2 days notice before Port Battles, this will change the game for many. I hope you will add a simple system that will randomly pick time schedules. One for EU players and one for US time zone players. For example: EU players fought and spawned timer, but it spawned for US time zone. They still get a credit for participating if US time zone wins PB. Same can happen with US time zone, they can attack a port, trigger timer, but it will spawn for 2 days EU time. Both time zones will get partial reward if Port Battle is won. 

 

Both time zones will have enough players to fill port battles since they are going to be slowed down and scheduled 2 days ahead. 

 

This will resolve issue with US players can't fight in BPs because they ended up on EU servers. 

 

Do not let players set windows! Let system spawn them. We all know players abused this system and set up timers when there are no one online to make an attack. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you give us more info on 3 capture zones inside PB?

 

I assume this is Battlefield style system with tickets and capture and hold zone until you run out or all players are killed.  

[CeltiberoCaesar]

To resolve the timezone issue you can set 2 window time, both am and pm. For instance 4:00-6:00 and 16:00-18:00.

[Eishen]

Willl skip Port battle (seems wonderful) and go directly to a War system proposal ...

 

 

1. Wars cost money

 

This do not need to be explicit …. will cost Money implicit, in ships and player dedication . Perhaps making free ports not accesible to warrying nations can be a quick extra.

 

2  Wars have limited time. /War can be won one the nation reaches certain number of the war effort points

 

Same point IMHO, war duration…

 

      “National morale”. Test , made weekly –  perhaps monthly first test of each war  as  PB are going to be less numerous than currently  -

 

                           % SueforPeace = WarWearing% + (( number of ports lost - number of ports gained ) * x     )

 

where:                                  

   X =  100/ number of total ports at war start

 

   WarWearing%  = Number increased as war goes for longer  (ie: +10 /month) can be increased by raids/other pvp suffered 

 

 

                A peace is imposed from nation rulers if random roll % > %SueforPeace

 

The number of ports who change hands should be a function of the difference between implied nations %s  at the moment that one of them sues for peace

 

 

 

War result direct rewards are those related to land taken , as in the post “"Such is a lord"

 

 

Other  rewards should  linked to the player effort, not to the war results …

 

1. PVP against the war target

2. Participating in Port battles

3. Raids

5. PVP missions

6. PVE missions in war zones

 

All this actions should be accounted (war effort points) and rewarded at war end , points being interchangeable for ships, gold and even lands “out of the map” who give player landowner title (those lands cannot be lost once attained).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I am totally in awe with the recent development discussion posts. The basic ideas are excellent and worth testing and at the very least brainstorm.

 

This new PB system and the inclusion of the Raids alongside the terrain and forts is really refreshing. The National war effort is something truly overdue, kudos for that.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Automatically triplicate timers per town when first timer is set if we really must have them, please.

Adjusted by system as needed not to overlap maintenance gaps.

 

1. GMT

2. GMT minus 6

3. GMT plus 12

[Deadstuff]

 

Instantly available port battles should be avoided to give defenders time to prepare: thus port battles should be announced 1-2 days in advance. This can be done either by just announcing port as a attack target (can be false) or by raiding. Raiding the port opens it for the attack. During the raid you don't capture the port but steal some goods from it and maybe weaken its defenses - destroy forts. Raids can be done any time. 

 

 

 

 

 

so if I understand correctly what you are saying is:

if the port is announce to be attack say at 28-4 are we then waiting the entire day for the attack (wich could be fake) or just a certain time windows?

the raid parts seems much more fun because the enemy can't hide safely in there own waters and actually have to risk there ships before then can even take the port.

[Wyspa]

Wouldn't it be wise then to let the attacker decide on the time? I mean they have though task in front of them in the first place since defenders will have time to prepare an will be noticed beforehand.

This way you can abolish the port timers and just let the attacker decide in what time window they will attack, of course Defender should receive information about selected time window.

I think it is only natural for attacker to decide when he wants to attack.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Wyspa

[ulysse77]

really like the new ideas, this and the lord system... especially the warscore idea, a la Europe Univerallis... I think once everything is settle, there won`t be a need for different server if population are low, since there could possible enough content for PVE and PVP alike...

[Ned Loe]

Wars (Suggestion list)

 

Wars must be declared.

1. Wars cost money (Add National Bank to store funds and donations. Lords will use these funds to take actions. This means money come from port taxes, sell/buy taxes, Bring ship to admiralty taxes and just from player donations. Go to port and deposit $ to support your nation) and/or (Add small tax to all fleeting and missions, the more you do these the more $ you will auto deposit in Bank for your Nation).
   
2. Wars have limited time. (Once National Bank collected enough money for war or other political things. Lords can trigger it by pressing the button. Let's say war will be active for 4 weeks and during that time war is hell. After war is over set 1 week rest period for Nations to recover, collect money and start over). 
   
3. You can only capture ports during war. (4 Week window, your time is ticking, so prepare well before going to war otherwise you will be exhausted from resources half way through the war). 
   
4. War can be won one the nation reaches certain number of the war effort points (I like it! Once again, well preparation, ship supply etc will need to be planned ahead before starting war. 4 weeks is enough to get a winner. Add, 1,2,3rd place winners and reward them as well. Give defeated Nation underdog bonuses to recover, so we don't have dying Nations after wars).
   
5. War gives rewards in form of ships, ranks, xp etc. (Rewards are very important. I would suggest to add exchange system for points earned in War/PBs. Exchange point for nice items, ship customization perhaps in future).
   

[Galbatorix]

Here is a port battle time issue idea.

When a nation choose a port to attack deffenders and atackers eliminate a time window(for example two hours) each one until just one is avalaiable.

For example, using two hours windows:

England choose Tampico for an attack.

Spain receive a message and see the windows:

00:00--02:00

02:00--04:00

.

.

.

.

22:00--00:00

Spain delete 02:00--04:00 window

Now england delete another window

Spaim delete another...

Now there is just one time window for the attack and is a suitable time for both countries.

Sorry for my english, I wish you understand the idea.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Galbatorix

[Twig]

As far as I understood the announcement, the other patch, regarding the new landlord system will come with a portwipe.

What will happen to the "neutral" towns - if they stay in this game?

1) Do we need to raid them first too, or can we directly go into a the capturing battle?
2) We can not declare war on the neutral nation, what will happen than?

As far as I remember, nothing got declared yet regarding the freetowns and the neutral nation. Please correct me if it was

[DeRuyter]

Please only talk about port battles and port battle mechanics.

 

 

 

Port battles

 

Battle circle of death will be removed 

Towers will be removed from the goal 

BR difference will be removed from the goal

3 capture zones will be added to port battles

 

to win the port battle you have to do one of the following 

• destroy enemy fleet completely
• capture 2 of the 3 capture zones
• if attacker only controls 1 capture zone defenders will win the battle
• Zones won't be close to each other so attacker must split the fleet bringing more tactical depth
• For the defender they have to also control 2 zones so they also have to split the fleet
• Forts will provide defence - but might be giving points for victory
• Because of land some ports will become uncapturable if defenders come
• Initially all forts will be automatically placed.
• Eventually defenders will build them in ports

Victory points are determined by the following

• Losing ships loses points based on the BR of the vessel
• Killing ships gives points based on the BR of the vessel
• Controlling zones gives points 
• Zone can be captured by any ship
• If enemy ship is present in the zone capture stops and the enemy must be destroyed first
• The zone will be 1 -1.5 km in diameter to disable trolling and line hugging

 

 

content and changed will be added to this post as edits once good ideas start coming in the comments.

 

 

Here are some suggestions on the PB proposals, in particular those highlighted above.

 

1. Land in PB should include areas of shallow water in all ports. At least implement triple layer system mentioned by admin. This will give variety to fleets in PB. Eliminate separation between shallow and deep PB - any ship can enter (okay maybe not basic cutter to stop trolling). Suggestion for depth system*:

     a. shallows near shore/beach = no ship enters

     b. shallow water out of main channel, near fort or shallow water port = small ships 7th rate, current shallow water ships inc. Niagara.

     c. medium depth - frigates 5th-6th rate. Cerberus up to Trinc.

     d. Deep - all ships

2. Variety of water depths will stop attacker bringing 25 1st rates to destroy enemy fleet for victory.

3. Some Zones could be placed in shallow area for capture only by small ships. See #2 also.

4. Forts should offer victory points or be a capture zone - otherwise Mortar brig has little use!

5. Raiding port before capture gives intelligence on fort placement and areas of shallow water.

 

*Hoping for height map and individual ship draft system eventually!

[Magnum]

Here is a port battle time issue idea.

When a nation choose a port to attack deffenders and atackers eliminate a time window(for example two hours) each one until just one is avalaiable.

For example, using two hours windows:

England choose Tampico for an attack.

Spain receive a message and see the windows:

00:00--02:00

02:00--04:00

.

.

.

.

22:00--00:00

Spain delete 02:00--04:00 window

Now england delete another window

Spaim delete another...

Now there is just one time window for the attack and is a suitable time for both countries.

Sorry for my english, I wish you understand the idea.

 

 

so -

 

1. Attacker declares intent to attack port = all time windows available

2 defender gets "turn" - removes to them least desirable window.

3. attacker gets "turn" - removes to them least desirable window left.

4. Turn defender - removes to them least desirable window left.

5. Turn attacker - removes to them least desirable window left.

6. Turn defender - removes to them least desirable window left.

7. Turn attacker - removes to them least desirable window left.

 

8. Only one window left - that is when attack is scheduled to happen.

 

Yes?

 

I like it.

 

I would add = all turns happen in first 24 hrs after attack announcement. Any member of the parliament can take a turn for their country, but it is recorded "who" selected a particular time.

 

If a country fails to take a turn in time - RNGeesus takes their turn?

[Bart Smith]

Generally this is huge step into right direction just bring this to us, let us test it and we will share more ideas after. About time to anounce PB - one day  (24h) will be enough i think. One more question - Towers will stay alongside with new Forts?

•  
• Because of land some ports will become uncapturable if defenders come
•  

Can you elaborate this? What ports and what defenders change if they come.

/Tiphat

[Kazak77]

Free ports should be uncapturable pirate cities. I also think that pirates should be the only nation that can raid ports but can't capture them, low number of spread out ports should be compensated with lower cooldown of teleport.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Free ports should be uncapturable pirate cities. I also think that pirates should be the only nation that can raid ports but can't capture them, low number of spread out ports should be compensated with lower cooldown of teleport.

 

There will be a Piracy/Privateering thread on its own. Let's wait for it and focus on the subject at hand. Salute.

[William the Drake]

Ports are lost ONLY if the war is won. 

Once war ends peace agreement is automatically signed for some time and ports change hands based on the war effort difference. Before that ports remain contested and available for both nations. 

 

Could/will there be an option for mitigating nations to offer different ports for peace? Example: England and France have been at war. Most of the fighting has been around Hispaniola. England Captures Port-de-Paix and Leogane. France sues for peace. France really wants paix and Leogane back. France offers to give England holdings in Louisiana (3 or 4 ports, and maybe some gold) in exchange for return control of Leogane and Paix. If no agreement can be made, England keeps Leo and Paix OR war continues?

[thp]

May I have some questions :

 

Is the time zone for capturing ports will remain like 2h before and can be set at anytime time or there are some specifical time slots. ( time slots could be something like : morning time, afther noon, night time ) ? In my opinon, 2h timer  zone will be no longer need it if there s are raidings to open a port for capturing because people will exactly know which port will be attacked and come to defend,  there s no more surprised attack.

 

Is the capital port will be also openned for raiding and capturing too ?

 

Thank you in advance for your answers.

[Long Beard]

So then... 

During the automatic peace phase, does this mean you cannot a nation you are at peace with?