Positional reinforcements and ROE

[admin]

Hello Captains

 

Many players have expressed concerns with the positional reinforcements after 1.5 BR limit was disabled. 

The main concern is the positional reinforcement that allows to circumvent the time compression and spawn ahead of the enemy in battle. 

 

Its a critical issue and we are working on fixing it. 

 

Old positional spawns are not solving the problem because of the land. We have figured out on how to fix it but it will take time to code in. Meanwhile we can suggest bringing 1.5x limit temporarily to make positional reinforcements bearable. 

[Vaz]

Bring back 1.5x limit's back, until the fix is ready

[BungeeLemming]

make it 1.2 x BR

cause the mechanic still allows for huge ships to imbalance any battle to a much greater degree

[Niels Terkildsen]

It brings me hope, and I can't wait to see what you come up with! In the meantime, yes, I guess we'd better go with the lesser of two evils.

 

EDIT: I will probably stay in port until there's a new system in place. Not keen on playing any of the two options.

EDIT2: Alternatively go back to the version before "Land sighted" and implement it again when the fix has been completed.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Niels Terkildsen

[Cragger]

Please announce the change if you commit to it. Many people even to today are not aware that 1.5x BR was even disabled.

[Grundal]

In my opinion the 1.5x BR is not required in the short term until the fix.  I just keep my head (mouse) on a swivel.  Others should as well.  Adds to the risk and reward to sailing OW.

[Jerome]

That is a terrible idea.  The system prior to 1.5 worked.  You had a one minute window to join which meant that your group could get in from open sea if you had to chase someone down (separating the fast and slow ships open world). 

 

A better compromise.  Make a 30 second window after the tag, allowing all to get in initial fight (it is unrealistic to expect a hunting group of a variety of ships, especially different class ships, to maintain cohesion especially when chasing someone down).  The next 30 seconds the battle is still open, but anyone joining spawns at a distance behind their side's starting point. 

 

Mechanically limiting forces is bad.  Fair PvP options are there, open world should be risky and it should reward the players that organize.  We have already lost players from my group that were locked out of battles and saw no interest in sailing around open world for the odd fight and then missing out.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Jerome

[Hugo van Grojt]

Could I get a (possibly unbiased) explanation why the positional reinforcement thing is bad and needs to be fixed?

 

Are there bugs with land? Or do people dislike the possibility of a superior force to surround a smaller one?

 

Please enlighten a crafter who spent too much time in Willemstad Crafters Guild meetings.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugo

[pietjenoob]

Bring back the 1.5 br would only help the gankers and not the people who get ganked so it is an bad idea to bring the 1.5xbr back maybe to the old system??

[Anne Wildcat]

Relax, as he said it's only temporary until the fix.

[Galileus]

Bring back the 1.5 br would only help the gankers and not the people who get ganked so it is an bad idea to bring the 1.5xbr back maybe to the old system??

 

1.5BR rule would mean gankers need to jump in all at once and cannot use positional reinforcements to surround a faster prey, wouldn't that be right?

[Wick]

Could I get a (possibly unbiased) explanation why the positional reinforcement thing is bad and needs to be fixed?

 

Are there bugs with land? Or do people dislike the possibility of a superior force to surround a smaller one?

 

Please enlighten a crafter who spent too much time in Willemstad Crafters Guild meetings.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugo

The current issue is that when a battle is initiated, it takes into account of every ships position to each other and setup the battle instance accordingly. 

this change has been introduced with the land in battle feature, hence it was mentioned.

 

Later arrivals then can move to the opposite side of the battle circle effectively cutting of any line of retreat of the fleeing party. this would not be possible in any realistic scenario obviously. enough ships can completely surround a smaller force this way.

[LarryFromSales]

I agree to return the 1.5x br rule until such time as positional reinforcements are removed. Surrounding a ship that is faster on the OW is absurd and unimmersive.

Edited April 25, 2016 by LarryFromSales

[maturin]

Yeah, I have already abused the positioning to trap fleeing gankees.

[Fonseca]

Don't bring 1.5 BR back please!

[Sureshot]

Yes, bring back the 1.5x BR. Force the people who want to gank to do something. Organize and stay together, make them work for it.

[Slamz]

Since 1.5 BR did not solve the problem either, and created new problems, I see no reason to bring it back.

[Ned Loe]

Since 1.5 BR did not solve the problem either, and created new problems, I see no reason to bring it back.

More than 50% of players like it and this might be why it's a good temporary fix until they code the final one . 

 

(Provocative post to see real people opinions, please ignore)

[Slamz]

More than 50% of players like it and this might be why it's a good temporary fix until they code the final one . 

 

In my poll, it's actually losing to "no limits at all", which I find surprising (I just threw in that one for sake of completeness -- I didn't think it would be tied for second most popular alongside "some other system").

[Ned Loe]

In my poll, it's actually losing to "no limits at all", which I find surprising (I just threw in that one for sake of completeness -- I didn't think it would be tied for second most popular alongside "some other system").

Let's wait and see what people say in this post. I would say stick with what people like and what works best at the moment until you have final product. 

[Chimera]

I think within reinforcement area the defending side should be able to join without BR limit. I don't think it is the way to go to let fleets that are specialized in boarding have a go at larger ships without having to fear defenders joining.

[OTMatt]

If you do can you make the tag circle larger, its real difficult trying to get a group of players to stick together in a frequently moving circle.

[Dekillos]

May be not all circle should be available for join?

 

Если движок позволяет, то можно было "провести" прямую(вектор атаки) от двух точек, атакующего и атакуемого, подкрепления могло бы спауниться только в части сферы позади одной из точек. И никакого круга. Чем дольше входишь в бой, тем дальше ты от точки спавна.

 

Т.е. фиксируется две точки входа в бой, остальные заходы будут производиться относительно их.

Edited April 25, 2016 by DekTo (Dekillos)

[akd]

Later arrivals then can move to the opposite side of the battle circle effectively cutting of any line of retreat of the fleeing party. this would not be possible in any realistic scenario obviously. enough ships can completely surround a smaller force this way.

 

This can be abused because reinforcements joining at 3 secs at the near side of the circle will spawn the same distance as reinforcements that join at the far side of the circle at 119 secs.  This means reinforcements have 2 min of OW compressed time to exploit against the players pinned in the instance. (And to be clear, the previous spawn on the attacker system was also exploitable, just in a different way.)

 

This could be solved very easily by steadily growing the join circle (at say 10 kts, maybe more) as soon as the battle starts and until it closes.  Not joining immediately and instead sailing through the circle would then come with a large distance penalty in the instance that directly compensates for the additional OW compressed time.  It would also mean increased risk of not making it to the far edge before the battle closes.  In general it would be better to join at the start or nearest edge, but reinforcements would still be able to join at distance and from the appropriate direction relative to OW (because a reinforcement might fairly be coming from the other side, rather than sailing through the circle to exploit).   This would also solve any problems with land, because as soon as the circle grows to eclipse land, no player would be able to join from the location since they would not be able access the edge of the circle.

[Isink A Lot]

More than 50% of players like it and this might be why it's a good temporary fix until they code the final one . 

Can I see the poll you used to get this 50% please?

 

Why was the 1.5 BR rule implemented? Answer: people where hiding in battle screens or ports then jumping out when a bait ship tagged a smaller group or solo player. That player then found himself in a battle at 10 to 1 odds and was ganked. 1.5 BR was thought to solve this but didn't, instead a friendly who was just out side the tag circle could not help the ganked player because of the BR rule. BR rule was removed for this reason. Now without the BR rule the gank group can sail past the tag and cut off the gankee's escape path by a magic time/space warp. So how do you fix all this?

 

Just make invulnerable timers 2 minutes 30 secs, and battle close 30 seconds, and tag circle twice as big and forget all this BR difference junk! Now gankers can't hide in ports or battle screens, they won't get in, what you see in open world is the fight you get, and the bigger tag lets multi ship groups fight together but you spawn in at the distance you where when tag happens. So attackers still have to coordinate but the gankee may get help from friendlies that where in range but will have to sail to the battle to help. Now everyone gets what they see, no surprises, if you are ganked its your fault for poor awareness on the open world. The only BR rating system is what ships should be able to tag another ship (cutter should not tag a first rate, and vice verse). How is this not simpler?

Edited April 25, 2016 by Isink A Lot