Whats up with uber AI?

[Harley Davidson]

Since patching the AI ships in combat are becoming ridiculous.

 

I'm running gold Mag access, turn trim and opti rudder. AI can still out turn, out load and out shoot me every time when playing with identical ships. The gunners have also become snipers that rarely miss.  I defeat them but I get pissed off due to the fact that if they are running the equivalent of higher upgrades then why the hell are they not dropping them upon defeat?

 

Other games usually have opponents at different AI levels and this needs to be put in the game. Every AI I encounter is usually of high skill, there needs to variety. Also if I have defeated an AI of higher skill my reward should be the hi end upgrades that they had! Having opponents of varying skill would also make it more interesting due to the fact that you'd never know what level of skill the captains had until the shooting starts, and if they are very good AI of high skill the player should also have the reward of good upgrade drops!

 

 

[victor]

The only actual difference i see (after the hotfix) that actually still makes AI somehow "superhuman" is the increbile precision of shoots at long distance.

 

This makes very difficult to win missions if you do not use the carronades setup and if you are unable to keep the combat at close quarters.

[Harley Davidson]

I also find that after loosing crew or taking damage the AI aren't loosing canons anymore, they even fire when the gun decks are under water.   I wanted to test the fact that the load rate was much quicker than the human controlled ships with Exceptional upgrades and the AI loaded and fired faster every time.  Distance shots are killer, I have to range my shots when the canon smoke clears and adjust my elevation to hit, AI seems to be able to snipe full broadsides that don't miss much if at all...  that sux.

[Harley Davidson]

Sorry to harp on the subject but here are a few more items i've noticed.

 

I've tried to board ships with less than half the Marines/crew members/muskets/firepower that I have on mine and They're getting way more kills in the battle log for the different attacks. Have they been hiring super ninja's for their crew now? Just seems odd.  I remember when IL2 Sturmovick was in development that the AI gunners where the same. They eventually tweaked it so that it became more realistic, I'm hoping the dev's of this game will do the same. There needs to be a good balance and I'm just trying to give a little feedback to help

[LeBoiteux]

There's already been a thread about current AI : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13420-hotfix-973/
 

Since patching the AI ships in combat are becoming ridiculous.
I'm running gold Mag access, turn trim and opti rudder. AI can still out turn, out load and out shoot me every time when playing with identical ships. The gunners have also become snipers that rarely miss.  I defeat them but I get pissed off due to the fact that if they are running the equivalent of higher upgrades then why the hell are they not dropping them upon defeat?

You defeat AI, so AI is not too hard (uber) for you.

 

Last hotfix (9.73) made missions / AI much easier. 

 

I haven't tested enough 5-6 rank missions to decide whether AI level at those levels is correct or a bit too easy but one thing is sure : it is now by no means over-challenging. 

 

To me, in NA, AI should be able to defeat most players (or do lots of damage) on average at least 1 out of 3 times (whether or not different AI levels are implemented in the future).

[Harley Davidson]

Thank you Gents for replying to this thread......

 

I guess my definition of uber is saying that most AI ships are running hi upgrades, I've tested this due to the fact that I'm running higher upgrades and they have the same abilities as I do or better. I really don't mind if the majority are running higher upgrades but shouldn't they be dropping those upgrades if you defeat them?  I've been playing this game for 3 months + and I don't get to play many port battles so I've had about 2 or 3 upgrade drops with the 1000+ battles I've had.  As far as I know, port battles are the only place where u can get good upgrades.....unless you make them.

 

Shouldn't there also be a variety in AI skill? AI in general has to be worked on too. AI ships really have no tactics so to speak as they don't run when heavily damaged or have any other tactic except a straight in attack even when dis masted. I guess they are way to predicable right now.  

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Navy ranks matter for AI. Determine overall strength through modules and aggressiveness.

 

Not that it really is a big difference as they are very mechanic in their wind position choices along with the shooting.

 

What I have yet to determine is that if they have all upgrades or are also limited to slots like we are.

[LeBoiteux]

Shouldn't there also be a variety in AI skill? AI in general has to be worked on too. AI ships really have no tactics so to speak as they don't run when heavily damaged or have any other tactic except a straight in attack even when dis masted. I guess they are way to predicable right now.

 You're right. 

Making AI smarter was planned :

We wanted to add the following things to the AI in the next 2 content patches.

• teach them to chase and demast
• teach them to board 
• teach them to operate in groups and focus fire
• create several roles and patterns for bots (like bots that can parry you or backstab you in Dark souls)

This would increase the options in generating interesting missions and events

But based on the patch feedback - we are worried that people want that. Seems that people just want bots for relaxing and enjoyment  (not necessarily a bad thing).

I don't know if it's still to be expected. I really hope so !

See : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13233-ai-shootingdamageleaks-feedback-moderated/

[_X_Apophis_X_]

IMO I think the way AI is now is good enough, I remember when I first started and thought they were a challenge and it was pretty frustrating their accuracy compared to my meagre skills. For the newer players the AI is not a push over neither is it impossible. (come on you must want some sort of challenge) plus it will help you prepare for PVP you will find real players sometimes not as good as some AI but most of the time a lot harder to defeat. All I say to Dev's is if they bring in intended AI with the ability to chase  board and demast  is that there had better be sufficient offset in these abilities by rank so they are not too much for the newer players or we will have the Hue and cry that we have now AI is to hard. If you are going to implement these changes better earlier than later so we can test it. Even though a lot of players still do not understand that we are in early access finding the best game play to make this game as good as it can be. All the time we are finding exploits and these are getting fixed and in some cases made worse, we pass on our thoughts and the Dev's adjust and they have been doing a pretty good job changing things numerous times, it's all trial and error. What I will say to people is try stuff for a few weeks before commenting on changes, And be vocal on these forums with your views and do not be put off by some responses you may receive. (Most of the time they will either support or dis agree rarely rude)  Just my thoughts. As usual love the game. Love the changes continually happening (Yep I'm a fan boy!)

[SheepDip]

Uber AI is an understatement !!  I'm seeing AI stopping and going backwards with their masts blown off !! Also they hit me with every shot from 500 & 600 .

I don't even do fleets cuz I end up having to fight 5 or 6 AI's at the end . This game was awesome before the last patch but it's not fun anymore , just not real .

 

SheepDip , Flag Captain 

[Sir Ballard / oo7]

I too have noticed AI has become a little too "uber". Last night I found the AI was running ganking squads against me, so to be sure... I ran a test:

 

1. Search and destroy fleet mission 200xp mission.

 

From the start of a fleet order i ran straight up wind as possible to see how many would chase me.

Having no damage so that health would not play a factor, have a guess what happened?

6 of the 9 enemies chased me for about half an hour even though friendly AI were closer!

They all battered and bumped each other side by side against the wind to get to me.

All other ships that remained (friendly and otherwise) dropped their sails and sat idle even though they were within shooting distance of each other.

 

2. I began my downwind run:

 

Turned and ran with the wind picking up top speed to reach the idle boats at the far end of the map

 as I passed through the boats earlier that were bashing each other upwind, most ended up broadsiding me up my clacker (stern) with some incredible almost 180 degree angles, with the odd couple on the outsides doing that single shot 100% precision thing that they do.

 

Passing back through the idle boats BOOM! they all came back to life, picking up the remainder of the enemies onto me and friendly AI doing their best to tail the enemy that was hunting me down.

 

Needless to say, yes, in my opinion AI still needs some rework.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Sir Ballard

[Elric]

I have been running numerous missions to ramp up XP.   Like others, I have noticed I take far more hits at distance than seems reasonable.   I also noticed my 'friendly' AI partners are as much a threat at times as the opposition.  The allied AI players don't use any judgement shooting when you are in the target area.. 

[Jean Ribault]

The AI must have had a few corrections since the beginning of this thread.  I attacked an AI trader this past weekend and didn't notice the huge enemy fleet I accidentally pulled in.  Just lonely me in my gray no-upgrade LGV vs. about 8.  At first I thought they were friendlies and dismissed it, then wound up boarding the target but couldn't leave the battle, finally realizing the AI fleet had pretty much gotten to me and starting pounding my ship.  I took off and wound up sinking 2 of them and damaging a Niagara's sails to about 70% before escaping.  Honestly I thought even with the AI fleet starting right on top of me they did a relatively poor job of shooting at me.  Ran into each other on occasion as I fled and although I used 2 repair kits still managed to get out.  I remember them being much better before (or maybe I was worse?).

Edited July 19, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Fuhajins of Autumn]

AI running into each other, doing only the circle tactic (as usual) and loving to go in iron is not the same problem as AI that shot you like a sniper.

 

The AI itself is pretty bad and it is like the devs gave them uber weird stats and accuracy in order to compensate. But still, the AI is shit  with absolutely 0 thinking. Just running circle.exe, firegunswithoutwaitingtheweakspot.exe, turn.exe and gotoplayerinstraightlinewhentoofar.exe .

 

What i would like to see is a serious re-coding of the AI capacity to make choices* and avoid bad situations. And then get rid of the uber acc and stats. Not sure this is going to ever happen.

 

 

* Stop going in iron that's plain stupid. Stop doing always a straight line after a reloadshock. Do not only turn in circles at full speed especially when you have superior ship and fire-power. Stop to decide to turn only after guns reload or shot. Do not show your damaged side. Repair yourself. Learn to runaway and leave the battle when it is lost. Try long range shots when needed and tank with the side instead of going head on into the enemy guns fire every time. etc. etc...

Edited July 20, 2016 by Fuhajins of Autumn

[Prater]

Either the ai I fight suck, or you guys are exaggerating on their precision.  They hit me at the very most 50 percent of the time.  Mostly it is just a few hits per broadside and the rest completely miss.

 

Granted, the AI seem to be able to shoot at angles we can't.  But if you are fighting the ai in a mindless way, you are going to lose.  What seems to be an important rule in all combat?  Minimize the target you present to your enemy.  Minimize what you present to the bots and they will mostly miss.

[maturin]

 

 

And then get rid of the uber acc and stats. Not sure this is going to ever happen.

It's kind of ironic to be writing about AI that are dumb, yet cheat.

 

Because the AI have the same maneuvering abilities that you do. The only reason you think otherwise, is because you fail to out-think the supposedly stupid AI.

[Fuhajins of Autumn]

It's kind of ironic to be writing about AI that are dumb, yet cheat.

 

Because the AI have the same maneuvering abilities that you do. The only reason you think otherwise, is because you fail to out-think the supposedly stupid AI.

I did not talk about the manoeuvrability of the AI vessel actually, but still many others posted about this.

 

His ship can turn as mine can; great ! Now i'll wait when the AIs to have a smart use of his turning capability. Because unless you are a teribad player, it is extremely easy to predict what he is going to do and how to counter him anyway.

 

That's no irony. There is a difference between the AI that insta-prep, snipe you or insta-change ammo (CHEAT AI) AND the AI that fail to understand that going in iron (Because predictable circle tactic)  is not a nice idea when i am sitting right behind him (DUMB AI).

 

You can give the AI 100% sniper precision, Uber marines stats, allowing him to do the spinning top with low sails or whatnot. Still it WONT make the AI SMARTER.

 

So yes. Please devs re-code, improve the AI logic. Then get rid of the uber acc and stats (and other weird stuff).

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I miss the harder AI from a while ago. Provided very good practice for captains willing to support the learning curve.

[William Livingston Alden]

@hethwill - you forgot all the new players leaving the game because the get crashed by the AI ships  in the single and or fleet missions, means you are not alone on the server there are also others playing here.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Exactly. I do not forget. That's why we have nice AI at the moment. They can be challenging for a new player but not deadly unless it is a complete mishap.

 

For savvy captains though the AI is nothing at all.

[maturin]

 

I did not talk about the manoeuvrability of the AI vessel actually, 

 

...

 

Then get rid of the uber acc and stats (and other weird stuff).

 

...

[Fuhajins of Autumn]

...

I do quote myself: but still many others posted about this.

 

People was annoyed by this kind of stuff and still be. It is just artificial ways to make the AI "challenging". But at the end of the day the AI is still crap shit and will do the same garbage again and again. What piss me off is how the Ai is dumb.

 

So i talk about the AI in a serious need of a revamp, then, get rid of those weird bonuses because a good AI wont need them and people will be happy to see their gold ship not being artificially outmatched by the same fit.

 

You want to quote more and each words? I do not care.

AI is crap and easy and all he can do is the use of fake buffs in order to just...exist. Now it is even going to show its stupidity in PVP thanks fleet.

The day when the AI will do something smart, well, i will be impressed and less reluctant to borefight right-clic turn left him.

 

Target practice i tell you.

[Prater]

Then get rid of the uber acc and stats (and other weird stuff).

 

As I already stated, the AI don't have uber accuracy.  They hit at most 50% of the time, and that is at the very best.  The vast majority of their shots miss me.  It doesn't matter if it is a 6 gun broadside or a 19 gun broadside, typically only 2-5 shots hit me, the rest completely miss.

[Fuhajins of Autumn]

Alright, did not know that the accuracy problem people are talking about was solved since.

[SeaMist]

I remember when the AI WAS uber. Believe me.....it's not uber.