Luc Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Bach made this very good and informative post: "Soldiers vs Gladiators my friend. Two different philosophical approaches to pvp. A soldier wants to fight a WAR. That means that if his platoons task is to control a hill side or pass it means from ALL enemies. So if a lone enemy wanders into the pass the whole platoon does their job and kills him. They don't consider it a gank. It's war. If the soldiers job is to protect the homeland, trainees or civilians then jump into all those fights to protect is his job. He doesn't let them die just because the enemy only brought 1 man. The psycological affront the 1.5 BR rule is to soldier pvp players is high. A Gladiator is only out there looking for great 1v1 fights and is what he considers the most fun. He doesn't really care about any war. He only cares about individual fights and the quality of those fights. For him to do what he does best and likes most requires a "fair" starting point for all the battles he fights. He tries to be the best 1v1 fighter he can be. Even if it means his team, if he does even consider himself part of a team, loses some silly war which to him it's not as important as the individual fights. He will consider anyone who kills him 1v10 as unskilled cowardly gankers. Even if he was that lone fighter who wandered into the mountain pass the soldiers were guarding. Even if he is that lone fighter attacking trainees and civilians off the homeland that the platoon over runs. He will always consider the large force as "gankers". Basically, anytime you put the two different mantras of pvp into the same sand box your going to have the problems. The gladiators want the sand box to resemble an arena and the soldiers want it to resemble a war zone." I hope that you devs really read this in order to develop the game further. As I see it the platform you have right now may actually benefit both... The gladiators could have 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3 etc fights in an arena based ladder exerience - much like the "small battles" or "large battles" that exsists now. The soldiers needs the OW without too many restrictions maybe with some diplomatic features etc. and some trading focus so there will be "soft targets" to protect versus them evil enemies.... I agree! When i was attacked by 5 or more enemys i was thinking ok this is life its dangerous as a pirate in hostile waters. Like this.
Sven Silberbart Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Bach made this very good and informative post: "Soldiers vs Gladiators my friend. Two different philosophical approaches to pvp. A soldier wants to fight a WAR. That means that if his platoons task is to control a hill side or pass it means from ALL enemies. So if a lone enemy wanders into the pass the whole platoon does their job and kills him. They don't consider it a gank. It's war. If the soldiers job is to protect the homeland, trainees or civilians then jump into all those fights to protect is his job. He doesn't let them die just because the enemy only brought 1 man. The psycological affront the 1.5 BR rule is to soldier pvp players is high. A Gladiator is only out there looking for great 1v1 fights and is what he considers the most fun. He doesn't really care about any war. He only cares about individual fights and the quality of those fights. For him to do what he does best and likes most requires a "fair" starting point for all the battles he fights. He tries to be the best 1v1 fighter he can be. Even if it means his team, if he does even consider himself part of a team, loses some silly war which to him it's not as important as the individual fights. He will consider anyone who kills him 1v10 as unskilled cowardly gankers. Even if he was that lone fighter who wandered into the mountain pass the soldiers were guarding. Even if he is that lone fighter attacking trainees and civilians off the homeland that the platoon over runs. He will always consider the large force as "gankers". Basically, anytime you put the two different mantras of pvp into the same sand box your going to have the problems. The gladiators want the sand box to resemble an arena and the soldiers want it to resemble a war zone." I hope that you devs really read this in order to develop the game further. As I see it the platform you have right now may actually benefit both... The gladiators could have 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3 etc fights in an arena based ladder exerience - much like the "small battles" or "large battles" that exsists now. The soldiers needs the OW without too many restrictions maybe with some diplomatic features etc. and some trading focus so there will be "soft targets" to protect versus them evil enemies.... 100% Agree! That is the way of a real OW WAR Game Edited April 21, 2016 by Sven Silberbart
Wilson09 Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Sure, agreed to the well known Soldier vs. Gladiator concept and it´s application to NA. But, let me point on one remark (figured below). As the "small battle" arena is suiting the Gladiator for sure, NA would not be well designed if you restricted the game to the soldier-type PvP player only. i) small battles would never compete to arena-only games like WoW, they are only there as "time-filler" and test-plattform ii) The Devs did a great deal of work to allow the "Gladiator" player to enter the open world. The ships are designed and suited to go alone in 1 ship to look for easy hunts, Trincs / Renos / Priv. are well designed ships to go alone...actually the whole pirate faction should be for the gladiator type of player and NOT for soldiers.... The soldiers also need "good reasons" to go to war and clear the hills from enemies, otherwise they start questioning their actions ("why am I killing all those guys?") ------------- ------------- As I see it the platform you have right now may actually benefit both... The gladiators could have 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3 etc fights in an arena based ladder exerience - much like the "small battles" or "large battles" that exsists now. The soldiers needs the OW without too many restrictions maybe with some diplomatic features etc. and some trading focus so there will be "soft targets" to protect versus them evil enemies.... Edited April 21, 2016 by Wilson09 1
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Let's get back on topic please. Specifically feedback on this hotfix. Thanks.
fox2run Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Ummm, yes. Except that the discussions of the latest patch has been closed and moved to this thread... Edited April 21, 2016 by fox2run 1
Lannes Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Some improvement in playing the AI lone wanderers around the French Caribes. With missions, less improvement. Often, I end up having to fight two men-o'-war with my one Niagara. Switching to carronades (did I spell it right?) has helped. More tweaking needed and especially less leaks on the human player's ship and some leakage on the AI boat. As I said before, the idea should be to simulate human players at ascending levels of skill, like they do with computer chess games. Edited April 21, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby Removed off topic.
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Ummm, yes. Except that the discussions of the latest patch has been closed and moved to this thread... Discussions of game theory and real life political/war events are off topic. Please keep this topic for feedback. Thank you.
woodenfish Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 Are there any patch notes for the latest patch from yesterday? We'd be very grateful to know what has changed in this latest update... 3
Mr. Starbuck Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 Are there any patch notes for the latest patch from yesterday? We'd be very grateful to know what has changed in this latest update... I'd be cery curious to know this as well. Any ETA on notes?
Lannes Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I played a mission set at my level and won. A pleasant surprise. I also played a mission lower down successfully and in the same game, just before the mission without 'refueling' at base sank two more AIs. 1
Mr. Starbuck Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 I played a mission set at my level and won. A pleasant surprise. I also played a mission lower down successfully and in the same game, just before the mission without 'refueling' at base sank two more AIs. yepp- fought a midship man mission AI in a shitty basic 4pd med cutter. It was a tough fight but I never felt overwhelmed and sniped to death like before. 'twas fun and felt, well: balanced. Good work so far, devs Current AI shall challenge new players, but won't scare them away. 1
Isink A Lot Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) yepp- fought a midship man mission AI in a shitty basic 4pd med cutter. It was a tough fight but I never felt overwhelmed and sniped to death like before. 'twas fun and felt, well: balanced. Good work so far, devs Current AI shall challenge new players, but won't scare them away. Not so sure about that, You and I know how to aim, know how to move our boat with wind, new players don't. I let my daughters boyfriend try out the game on my account, gave him a basic cutter and sent him into a level 1 mission. I was there to explain to him how to aim and sail. He got waxed by the AI, wasn't even close, did little damage to the AI. SO i had him kill a Lynx Trader to practice his aim in between the two battles. Lost the second battle too, a little bit more damage in that one, but still lost by a lot. The AI in level 1 missions are still to accurate a shoot for players who are just starting. They aren't for us because we already know how to fight, but noob will lose 9 out of 10 I bet (I'll see if I can get him to fight 8 more times), and if they do you think they will stick around for 11? I don't. Edited April 22, 2016 by Isink A Lot 1
Jan van Santen Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 It was announced, that Mortar Brig BP is ingame now. This is only half true. While it drops from crafting brigs, it still does not drop from breaking up NPC mortar Brigs. (Yes, I do know about the RNG, but I have broken so many Mortar Brigs now, that pre patch I would have had half a dozen BP's by now)
Mr. Starbuck Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 Not so sure about that, You and I know how to aim, know how to move our boat with wind, new players don't. I let my daughters boyfriend try out the game on my account, gave him a basic cutter and sent him into a level 1 mission. I was there to explain to him how to aim and sail. He got waxed by the AI, wasn't even close, did little damage to the AI. SO i had him kill a Lynx Trader to practice his aim in between the two battles. Lost the second battle too, a little bit more damage in that one, but still lost by a lot. The AI in level 1 missions are still to accurate a shoot for players who are just starting. They aren't for us because we already know how to fight, but noob will lose 9 out of 10 I bet (I'll see if I can get him to fight 8 more times), and if they do you think they will stick around for 11? I don't. true, it's hard to judge how NA'S difficulty is perceived from a complete beginner. Even harder to get reliable data if the game really is too harsh for beginners. Too harsh as in- will chase away the majority of interested new players.I sincerely hope that young'un will stay Back in the day when I fought my first battle against an AI cutter I lost, too. I stayed, 'cause the sirens were beckoning loud in this one. NA's class clearly shone through its hardship's. After winning my first couple of battles I was completely hooked. There's a great satisfaction in mastering challenges. I dunno- there might be more AI low level tweaking needed. But I suppose the battle for nebies might rather be lost in the current lack of proper tutorials and a proper UI department. Beating the UI is not a challenge granting lots of satisfaction
Bommel Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 It was announced, that Mortar Brig BP is ingame now. This is only half true. While it drops from crafting brigs, it still does not drop from breaking up NPC mortar Brigs. (Yes, I do know about the RNG, but I have broken so many Mortar Brigs now, that pre patch I would have had half a dozen BP's by now) True. If you look at the api data: "Name":"Mortar Brig Blueprint" *snip* "BreakUpRecipeSpawnChance":0 1
Isink A Lot Posted April 22, 2016 Posted April 22, 2016 true, it's hard to judge how NA'S difficulty is perceived from a complete beginner. Even harder to get reliable data if the game really is too harsh for beginners. Too harsh as in- will chase away the majority of interested new players.I sincerely hope that young'un will stay Back in the day when I fought my first battle against an AI cutter I lost, too. I stayed, 'cause the sirens were beckoning loud in this one. NA's class clearly shone through its hardship's. After winning my first couple of battles I was completely hooked. There's a great satisfaction in mastering challenges. I dunno- there might be more AI low level tweaking needed. But I suppose the battle for nebies might rather be lost in the current lack of proper tutorials and a proper UI department. Beating the UI is not a challenge granting lots of satisfaction True it is very difficult for vets to judge the toughness of new player missions. I personally love the new leak system and how one can sink before you lose all your armor. That's great for higher level missions, for beginners not so much. I had him in carronades as I was hoping the extra damage would make up for his lack of aiming. A new player would not know that, so even I cheated his experience a little. I'll try him in basic starter 4's and see how he does in the next 10 if I can get him to do that many. Every MMO's starter missions are cake walks, there is a reason for that. One it gives new players a chance to learn the controls and how the game works, and two winning is fun and losing is not. If you constantly lose at the start you will go find something else that is "fun".I have faith the Devs will get the right balance on the starter missions as I think now those are the only ones that need a tweak. But us vets need to take in consideration when talking about the enter level stuff that we relate it to new players who do not have a clue yet and not what we as vets find easy or hard. I'll report back after he has had a few more goes at it. 1
JimDandy Posted April 24, 2016 Posted April 24, 2016 This fix is good...real good!, it's making the new elements introduced in the recent patch work really well. When I first tried fleet missions last week I was overwhelmed however since that time I have become addicted to them, great fun for a single player. Now that the ai are becoming more balanced game dynamics for PVE in OW can be "tweaked" by simply by introducing more or less ai fleets and/or changing their composition. The 6 pounder change was needed, after the patch and prior to the hotfix I was using 6lb'ers on my Essex with devastating results it was fun for a while but it was wrong. It got me to thinking though about gun selection. I had always used the highest caliber gun allowed however now I was pondering about rate of fire vs damage ... the upshot is I have mounted medium 12lb'ers on my Essex. This according to my calculations produces the greatest damage per minute and has proven itself over and over in the last day or two, it's a winner. Also note that the gun spec's have been updated on the UI if you would like to compare. Anyway, Great Work! Thanks 3
ZenTex Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Talk about tweaking... The flag captain missions still could use some tweaking. One would think that having the appropriorate rank and ship, a 3rd rate in my case, those missions would be doable, albeit hard. Unfortunately they're not. The AI opposition is just too tough with the AI in it's current state. I've seen complaints about a Pavel in those missions being unbeatable, but it's one of the "easier" ones in my opinion, not really doable but I'm at least able to hammer him down quite a bit before I'm forced to flee. It's really the 2 Connies or inger + conny. Somehow I'm unable to do much damage to the connie, even when we're exchanging broadsides. The Ingermanland is less of an issue, but both of them together is just a bit too much for me. The other ooption is teaming up, which I'd love to do, but it's not quite an option in my nation with my timezone (GMT + 8) plus solo missions should be soloable IMHO. A good start would be to remove the hidden modules on AI ships now that they're no pushovers anymore, they don't need them anymore.
Lannes Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) At the level of Capitaine de Corvette on a Cerberus the game is wonderful at the moment both as a team game (using ts3) and as a me vs the AI game. Edited April 26, 2016 by Lannes
LeBoiteux Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 In rank 5-6 PvE missions, AI is too easy. No ship loss.
BallsOfSteel Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 AI was appalling in battle last night, three AI changing direction and rammed three times though survived to kill them all in the end. The rapid directional change is really annoying and keeping 250M plus away is the only option. The reduction slightly in BP of AI is welcome however reduction in AI numbers to match the PVP players numbers would be a better outcome thus not having to deal with random ships. Production of High Grade notes at Level 35 makes it all but impossible to achieve given we are also grind out using craft hours to extract from our resource mines as well. A double dip. amending this to Level 25 might make it more achievable for many and allow for crafters to actively assist in production of ships we can no longer capture nor purchase.
Capt Hornblower Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 I'm finding Admiralty orders a bit on the difficult side for midshipman I FINally won one yesterday in a non-basic cutter mounting 6pndrs, where I had 2 Lynx's accompanying me, after I don't know how many attempts in a 4pndr basic. it's pretty much the same in my LGV, tho it's severely undermanned. hunting down contraband carriers isn't so bad in simple basic, or even in a undermanned LVG. so far I have about 35 battles. yet, I'm still here, tho I suspect many will become frustrated
LeBoiteux Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 I'm finding Admiralty orders a bit on the difficult side for midshipman I FINally won one yesterday in a non-basic cutter mounting 6pndrs, where I had 2 Lynx's accompanying me, after I don't know how many attempts in a 4pndr basic. it's pretty much the same in my LGV, tho it's severely undermanned. hunting down contraband carriers isn't so bad in simple basic, or even in a undermanned LVG. so far I have about 35 battles. yet, I'm still here, tho I suspect many will become frustrated You should try carronades at close range and soon the Pickle.
Karel Stuyvesant Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Have been away a few weeks . I come back and the game is destroyed for me because we cant capture any npc warships anymore . Which is what this kind of game is about imo.
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