Hotfix 9.72

[Dekillos]

Too more damage from guns. Battle became shorter and its not good. Leaks too strong.

 

 

 

(Хотелось бы, чтобы изменения не так сильно влияли на длительность боя. Получил несколько залпов и утонул, удовольствия от такого быстрого боя практически нет в пвп)

[Brasco]

Wow you guys are quick! No rest for the weary i suppose. Keep up the great work!

[Fastidius]

AI is fine for people above LT Commander.  it does appear smaller ships and newbies are getting a rough ride tho.....the kind with no lube

[Parias]

The newest change where battles start and the cannons aren't loaded just seems like a step backwards IMO. Was much better the way it was before, and it also doesn't seem realistic

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Is there a limit on the upgrade modules AI can equip?

 

b/c I am in a basic cutter and it seems like the AI cutter fires 50% faster than I can.  For every 2 salvos I fire, he fires 3.

 

What guns are you using?

[Enraged Ewok]

I'd like to bring up that the guns still don't seem to be fixed for mixed armaments. Carronades are firing at the trajectory my longs would for a given aimpoint, and longs are dumping their shot into the sea. At max elevation + ship heel, the longs can't aim high enough to get anything but the very bottom of the courses and stays on a frigate-sized ship at 200~ meters. Screenshot is somewhat difficult to make out, but that's chain going straight for the deck at 200 yards while the aimpoint is well above the ship's masts.

 

[Prater]

I'd like to bring up that the guns still don't seem to be fixed for mixed armaments. Carronades are firing at the trajectory my longs would for a given aimpoint, and longs are dumping their shot into the sea. At max elevation + ship heel, the longs can't aim high enough to get anything but the very bottom of the courses and stays on a frigate-sized ship at 200~ meters. Screenshot is somewhat difficult to make out, but that's chain going straight for the deck at 200 yards while the aimpoint is well above the ship's masts.

 

 

 

 

They acknowledged this in the other developer announcement thread and said not to mix gun loadouts for the time being.  The only thing that was fixed was disabling gun decks now disable their gun indicator.

[Quineloe]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'any' range, but this sounds pretty realistic to me.

 

Realistic or not, if the Belle Poule gets penetrated all the time now, there's no reason to use one over a Trinc anymore, which costs pretty much the same.

[Enraged Ewok]

They acknowledged this in the other developer announcement thread and said not to mix gun loadouts for the time being.  The only thing that was fixed was disabling gun decks now disable their gun indicator.

 

Thanks, I missed that disclaimer.

 

 

Realistic or not, if the Belle Poule gets penetrated all the time now, there's no reason to use one over a Trinc anymore, which costs pretty much the same.

 

I've been sailing mostly the Belle Poule since the patch dropped. Oak wood, exceptional built-in planking. She still bounces extreme angle hits, and 6-9pd guns do negligible damage at longer ranges (outside of nametag range). Haven't fought a player or AI with heavier guns than that at anything but point blank though, so can't comment on the larger calibers at range.

[Thomas Sailaway]

Please make it so the AI doesn't fire one ball at the time. Listening to cracking wood through a whole battle is just annoying and unrealistic! Let them at least fire 10 cannons maybe to avoid the sound of cracking wood all the time!

[_X_Apophis_X_]

Thanks Dev's for a great patch Ai more challenging sure, They seem to have the extra buffs that we can fit so no problem there except for the fact that lower missions the Ai should not be so advantaged give newer players a chance to come to love the game like I do. Leaks not a problem now instant ram sinks have been fixed. I must admit I thought the firing rate was faster for Ai then realised that that's due to buffs Mag access and Powder monkeys Rum rations and use of mediums and such which is available to all just do not make every Ai as buffed. Ai accuracy improved it needed it! Now missions are more challenging if you cannot do mission do the lower mission easy fix gone are the days when you took on a grade higher missions because it was easy street. I remember reading in chat "I capture a 3rd in a cutter or whatever " and thought at the time this should not be happening. Fleet missions are a great addition get a few friends together and fight at least they can be a challenge now and not a walk over, same as single missions go lower you will be surprised at the fun you can have and challenge. Don't like missions then PVP where you will fight a player who is not as accurate as Ai but be prepared to spend a lot more time hunting and chasing, ultimately killing or being killed by a human prey that is un predictable and is fun. (Operative word is FUN).

[jimos87]

I agree i only staeted naval action a few days ago since this so called bug fix ive all but given up because the ai sinks my ship in all missiojs at anh range, and traveling to evenemt waters takes to long and you dont always find any target. Im away next week and hoping when i come back something is done otherwise ill just stop playing toi

[codyproxy]

Please make it so the AI doesn't fire one ball at the time. Listening to cracking wood through a whole battle is just annoying and unrealistic! Let them at least fire 10 cannons maybe to avoid the sound of cracking wood all the time!

 

I noticed this as well, they do this a lot (pew, pew, pew, pew...) instead of a full broadside. I don't know why though.

[Patrox]

Thanks Dev's for a great patch Ai more challenging sure, They seem to have the extra buffs that we can fit so no problem there except for the fact that lower missions the Ai should not be so advantaged give newer players a chance to come to love the game like I do. Leaks not a problem now instant ram sinks have been fixed. I must admit I thought the firing rate was faster for Ai then realised that that's due to buffs Mag access and Powder monkeys Rum rations and use of mediums and such which is available to all just do not make every Ai as buffed. Ai accuracy improved it needed it! Now missions are more challenging if you cannot do mission do the lower mission easy fix gone are the days when you took on a grade higher missions because it was easy street. I remember reading in chat "I capture a 3rd in a cutter or whatever " and thought at the time this should not be happening. Fleet missions are a great addition get a few friends together and fight at least they can be a challenge now and not a walk over, same as single missions go lower you will be surprised at the fun you can have and challenge. Don't like missions then PVP where you will fight a player who is not as accurate as Ai but be prepared to spend a lot more time hunting and chasing, ultimately killing or being killed by a human prey that is un predictable and is fun. (Operative word is FUN).

 

Stop thinking only for player with lot of gold and big ship.

Please think to the new players who want to discover the game and have not the skill of master and command. They can't do PVP the only way for us is to do PVE, and if we lost our ship half time we can't progress.

 

I have discover this game 1 month ago and I have made a lot of advertising for this beautiful game so that 10 player of my team have bought it. But now I'm sorry to said that I discourage interested players to buy it as AI is so unbalanced.

 

Please listen to what you tell players. It's not to annoy you or denigrate the great work already on this game.

Please go back on the combat IA.

 

Thanks for all the other modifications.

 

 

 

 

[Quineloe]

Full disclosure:

 

There is one special thing the AI can do:  Load different ammunition by deck,

Is that something we will get at some point? I'd love to mix grape and ball in brawls.

[cmdrbobcito]

Which reminds me...are we ever going to see double shot again...?   (Yeah, I'm not a long range sniper by normal inclination... )

[KuroNyra]

Full disclosure:

 

There is one special thing the AI can do:  Load different ammunition by deck, or even by cannon (everyone can load different ammunition by side).  That is an admitted advantage that they have. 

They do have built in buffs, but they are in line with the same modules players can equip.  These were there originally due to their stupidity.  

 

A good bit of feedback might be to keep their new skills but remove the extra buffs.

They can also fire in angle impossible to us.

 

Like firing a full broadside in there 10 o'clock while we have to be parralelle to do that.

[elbeefalo]

As a newer player commenting on the AI changes, I do appreciate making the game nearly impossible to grind now.  Definitely an improvement.

 

I look forward to getting rank to use a Constitution sometime in late 2018.

 

All I feel like I'm doing now is wasting my time losing these rediculous battles.  I guess I should just stop playing until either content is added or the AI is changed back from cyborg supermen.

[Precious Roy]

AI was too easy before. 

I love the sense of danger with the penetration fix.

I'll never be that accurate at long range. It's not a "challenge" if I can't overcome it. If they could just miss a little would be perfect for me. I don't mind doing easier missions for now, it's not a crisis, whenever is fine.

Fleet missions are awesome.

[Kanay]

Attacked a AI frigate who was roaming around while i was in a essex, it seems like the AI use a full set of MC upgrades like the extra hammocks 10% surplus of crew, i recorded a bit to then time out how much time it was taking her to reload, apparently it was taking 50 seconds to reload the 18pd's, i assume she had long 18's, by default it takes 54 seconds, let's add an improved magazine access + powder monkeys both in masterfraft and it reduces the reload times by 8%, and we have the 50 seconds reload time they get ( and while i could spend time crafting me a MC improved magazine the powder monkeys in MC or gold quality is something i will probably never see in game as it depends on your luck ) 

 

Now i'm wondering about the armor too, each other putting full boardsides and myself not missing according the the log at the top of the screen, she was removing more armor on me than i was doing on her, while my essex have a base armor of 4030 and the frigate have a base armor of 2675 according to the wiki, so how comes than i out-gun her with 14x18pd + 6x12pd's on a side versus 13x18pd's + 6x6pd's for her , that i have more armor and she still does more damages on my ship than i do to her after each boardside exchanged between us ? ( i had power monkeys fine + improved magazine common, a total of -5% for the reload times ) 

 

My essex was with crew space so no extra's on this part but does she have built-in strenght + extra planking master-craft upgrade too ( +8.25% HP ) or even gold one and maybe even a extra planking built in on the top to resist so well against my Essex firepower ? 

 

Thing is that with a same exchange of boardsides hitting well she had to sink way before i had been in a very bad shape, but i had to use a repair with steel toolbox gold upgrade on the top adding 10% more repair and even like this she ended with no more armor on the sides and took a while to sink and i still lost a good part of the armor i had restored to end up almost in the same state as here in the end, a bit more and i had to flee away, and while i'm surely not the best player in this game and probably average one,  it's a ship i should have no serious difficulties to fight against granted my better firepower and superior armor on the Essex, now in the current state it's barely manageable to take on supposed inferior ships, let's simply forget AI ships of the same class as yours.

 

Doing post captain missions and ending against 2 ships like it's the case 95% of the missions, for example a surprise + renomee, or 2 reno's or surprise + cerberus etc, it became simply mission impossible in a Essex while i did not even had to use a repair kits and getting out with both killed and more than 50% of my armor still present on my ship previously, it was too easy and boring for this level before but now ending agasint 2 ships you will have a bunch of holes covering your ship in the first 3 minutes and a good part of your armor removed while they eat some iron and you do way less damages on them compared to what you get in return.

 

In the end it's impossible now to do missions of your own level against AI, especially if you end up against 2 ships, you get hammered and turned into swiss cheese in a blink while they don't seems to receive much damages from what you unload at them.

 

 A mission of the same rank as your ship and level should be hard yes, but not impossible to be done and forcing you to run for your life each time as you get absolutely zero chances against 2 AI terminator ships having somehow a vastly superior armor than you, nor a ship way inferior on the paper should give you such a big challenge like it was against a "simple" frigate having less firepower and less armor than my ship, and they are not using any repair kits for the damages you inflict her but damaging me so hard that i had to use one with a boost of steel toolbox gold and even like this i end up almost in the same shape conditions as her when she finally turns into a U-boat, this should only happen in a battle against a ship similar to mine, either an essex or a trincomalee or 2 ships like a surprise + renomee or 2 renomee's etc... like we can encounter in post cpt missions, not against a single ship inferior on the paper.

 

I'm really wondering what is the full set of extra upgrades the AI is using now to be rendered so thought and resist so well at the iron thrown at them making them completely unbalanced against ships superior to them in terms of firepower and armor.

 

Will probably spend labor hours and resources making an extra planking gold to test on one of my Essex's, turning it into a brick in terms of speed but will test this and see how a gold essex with planking built in + extra planking gold upgrade will resist against a simple thing like a frigate just leaving it there sitting and getting hammered without avoiding 2 or 3 boardsides and then trying to send back a couple of them and compare armor reduction on both ships before probably having to run away or get a U-boat perma upgrade on my ship dura , will take time to do this but really something seems not correct when a frigate is able to ruin an essex so easily.

[gyps]

Having just tried this out in combat

 

Think from what I saw its the amount of hits AI gets nearly every shot a hit, we humans miss now and again would be nice if the AI did too

 

maybe I just unlucky but it seems to hit everytime

[Marcomies]

AI being good is not the problem and AI being improved and made more comparable to human players in general is a great thing. The main problem is that in missions the player is thrown into battles against an equal or superior enemy force in terms of ships (made worse by the AI having a ton on free upgrades on their ships). It's just no reasonable considering the game economy, you can't really lose ships during basic grind. Not to mention that the new players have nothing easier to do than equal sized ships with superior upgrades.

 

1-vs-1 between player Surprise and an AI Surprise should be challenging, there should be a real chance of average player losing. This situation should not be achieved by letting the AI shoot with inhuman accuracy or with the AI having more exceptional upgrades on his ship than what can ever be fitted onto an exceptional player ship. This should be achieved by making the AI play more like a good human player with plenty of human error and stuff like ranging shots involved. Several different skill levels of AI should be made, the easier AI ships missing more with guns, using manual sails in less optimal angles, having longer reaction times to player actions and being worse at avoiding/seeking raking opportunities and such.

 

A missions meant for player's level should not send the player against a ship of equal equal size or two ships slightly smaller. Instead the player should be sent against one ship slightly weaker than players ship (e.g. player Trincomalee vs Frigate) or several ships of considerably smaller size (e.g. player Trincomalee vs Mercury and a Brig). If player wants easier battles he can take a mission meant for lower level (unless he's of the lowest rank) and a player who wants the 1-vs-1 battles with equal sized AI can take a mission meant for one rank higher ships.

 

Don't make the AI easier or refrain from improving it. Just remove the AI upgrade bonuses as they are no longer necessary, always remember to add an element of human error into AI play as the systematic errors are fixed and make missions easier.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Marcomies

[Jan van Santen]

Full disclosure:

 

There is one special thing the AI can do:  Load different ammunition by deck, or even by cannon (everyone can load different ammunition by side).  That is an admitted advantage that they have. 

They do have built in buffs, but they are in line with the same modules players can equip.  These were there originally due to their stupidity.  

 

A good bit of feedback might be to keep their new skills but remove the extra buffs.

 

There is more than just 1 special thing the AI can do, which has been posted by an "official"

The other one being way less reduction of reload/sailing by crew loss or damage to sails.

 

The other special features confirmed are: upgrades w/o having a slot for them, max upgrades even in lower lvl missions were players cant get the same upgrades yet,  max upgrades on ai which aren't crafteable by players etc...

 

 Your conclusion is  correct,  I have proposed the same ting before:

 

 

Letting the AI have the old "cheats" and a better performance at the same time is what makes them op now 

 

On a different issue I have with 9.7:

 

No more boarding of warships. I miss it, because to me it was the substitute for missing PvE endgame. Boarding was taking more time and was more of a challenge than simply sinking. Besides, I used to break up the ships and craft with the components.

Gold isn't really a substitute for that on PvE server, since gold is worthless. There are so many easier ways to make gold than boarding a ship.

 

My suggestion therefore: 

 

Make boarded warships un-repairable permanently. That would prevent their use in PvP, but still leave us with the decision to break them up instead of sending them to admiralty. The option to send to admiralty should remain in game though, since others might still need the gold and since afaik in the future the officers will be based on that option.

 

Yet another issue:

 

Mortar Brig BP. I read ppl got it from crafting brigs, but it doesn't seem to drop when breaking up NPC mortar brigs. (I do know about the RNG, but I have broken up way more mortar brigs already than I usually need to get a BP from breaking up)

Edited April 16, 2016 by Jan van Santen

[Scud]

Don't misunderstand me.  For sure, you definitely ARE taking more damage than you were prior to the patch.  You are also dealing more damage than you were before the patch.

 

AI's cannon were NOT buffed in a way that your cannon weren't.

AI's accuracy was NOT buffed in a way that your cannon weren't.

 

What happened was:

AI was made more accurate by removing a bug that caused them to: a. Shoot into the water/over your hull, behind your hull very frequently, and b. Shoot at you at angles that had a high chance of bouncing - effectively wasting their shot.  

In addition:

A bug that caused 10% of shots to ALWAYS fail to penetrate was fixed.  A 42lb ball had a 10% chance of not penetrating a cutter.  Ridiculous.

 

This has made AI stronger than they were before.  I agree with that, Admin agrees with that, and I'm sure every last jack in this thread agrees with that.

 

Now, when we hear people talk about "Cheating AI", and crap like that, our ears turn off, because we know for a fact that the AI has the same abilities that you as a player do.  Some of them carry some nice modules - yes.  However, those modules are no better or worse balanced than they are in the hands of a skilled player.

 

So, how about instead of saying that AI cheats, that they have abilities that we as players do not, that they're "unfair", let's do some testing and figure out:

 

1.  Is AI really too strong?  From a game playability standpoint, should players have a no challenge opponent that they can beat one handed while eating a sandwich and drinking a beer while watching Netflix on the other screen?  Is the game more fun giving a decent challenge when you attempt a fight with an AI in the same ship as you, or is it more fun being able to smash ships that are two "tiers" above you with zero effort?

2.  Are the changes to leaks and the resulting damage "increase" from the fixed penetration bug creating an unfun situation?  If so, should damage be scaled down a little to "adjust" for the increased number of penetrating balls?

3.  Are leaks too "firehose" right now?  Are they causing you to sink too fast?  Should the amount of flooding be scaled down, should maybe they not sink you as fast but require more crew to pump to provide a similar level of negative performance, or some other idea?

 

This forum isn't for ranting and complaining and threatening to leave.  This forum is to provide feedback on features and changes to the game.  Feedback isn't "The AI cheats, I'm leaving if you don't fix it."  That's a crap post and doesn't do anyone any good.  

 

Captains need to listen to what the Developers are telling you about what the changes actually did.  If you have hard, concrete evidence that a change isn't acting the way we are stating it should, then please provide the evidence.  Provide feedback on the change, which means suggesting solutions that are designed to better the game as a whole, not the game as you want to play it.

 

Let's be constructive and work towards a better game.  Running from thread to thread ranting and raving isn't the way this is going to work.

How is this for "hard" evidence then.

 

Pre 9.7 I loved this game and didn't want to play other games.

 

Post 9.7 meh i guess I'll do some crafting so as not to waste labor hours and see if my brother is playing (currently deployed in korea and this is how we hang out), if not then I'm off to play something else or work on my DnD campaign.

 

Seems straightforward enough to me. 

[charognard666]

LOL, pve is too hard ? go in PvP guys....

 

PvE isn't too hard, it's just challenging, before it was just useles and not fun, this is really a good move in the right direction