surfimp Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) If you hit the enemy bow into bow with both ships going at max speed you both will sink That seems entirely reasonable. Haven't played the patch yet, but looking forward to it when I get home tonight Edited April 13, 2016 by surfimp
Jerome Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 The question is "to what extent is the game itself responsible for reducing ganking" and "to what extent is the player responsible for avoiding ganks". The game already provides tools to avoid ganks -- faster ships, defensive tags, 2 minute timers. An attentive player can avoid almost all ganks. I agree that the 2 minute timers were good. I might even support a 1 minute timer (and maybe increase the join radius of the battle to help give people too far ahead a chance to turn around and click in) but the 1.5 BR thing is too much hand holding. I would like to point out some issues with the 1.5 BR. First of all it turns a night with a group of friends sailing out into the blue into a math game. Uh... what is his BR? Can we all get in? And of course the mechanic will be abused. Players that organize will be punished as some of them are forced to sit out fights, subject to splitting and subsequent ganking, and generally not having as fun in a game completely determined by player actions (i.e. if you sail alone...). More numbers, when someone gets ganked (say 8:1), eight players are having fun vs one player that is miserable for the moment. I have been on both sides and I find that when I am in a hopeless cause, the best you can do is turn and fight and try to get max XP before you sink. Such is life. Now, because of the artificial BR nonsense, you will have more players getting cut out of battles; a particular misery if you are with a group of friends and you are forced to wait on a lengthy battle, plus the chances of you getting sucked into another battle and then separated from your friends. It is asinine. Make this game player driven. Don't punish people that sail together. If people hate ganking so much, they should organize or just not take the game so seriously. Plus, it does not take much to make the gankers the gankees. This type of game (with "real" loss) will always have players crying about fairness. They will be the vocal minority while the rest of the player base is having fun sinking them. When POTBS started artificially protecting players by mechanics, two things happened. The mechanics were abused and the game population dropped. The first time my group is split and people are forced to sit out a fight is when I will start thinking about moving on from this game. 2
Quineloe Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 One thing the 1.5 thing really fixed is hiding in battles. Finally.
Leavon Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 The one change that was uncalled for was making NPC ships other than Trade ships uncapable. The one thing I found even remotely enjoyable and it's been removed, this game gets shelved till the Dev team comes to it's senses and reinstates it.
Mrdoomed Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 I would like to point out some issues with the 1.5 BR. First of all it turns a night with a group of friends sailing out into the blue into a math game. Uh... what is his BR? Can we all get in? And of course the mechanic will be abused. Players that organize will be punished as some of them are forced to sit out fights, subject to splitting and subsequent ganking, and generally not having as fun in a game completely determined by player actions (i.e. if you sail alone...). More numbers, when someone gets ganked (say 8:1), eight players are having fun vs one player that is miserable for the moment. I have been on both sides and I find that when I am in a hopeless cause, the best you can do is turn and fight and try to get max XP before you sink. Such is life. Now, because of the artificial BR nonsense, you will have more players getting cut out of battles; a particular misery if you are with a group of friends and you are forced to wait on a lengthy battle, plus the chances of you getting sucked into another battle and then separated from your friends. It is asinine. Make this game player driven. Don't punish people that sail together. If people hate ganking so much, they should organize or just not take the game so seriously. Plus, it does not take much to make the gankers the gankees. This type of game (with "real" loss) will always have players crying about fairness. They will be the vocal minority while the rest of the player base is having fun sinking them. When POTBS started artificially protecting players by mechanics, two things happened. The mechanics were abused and the game population dropped. The first time my group is split and people are forced to sit out a fight is when I will start thinking about moving on from this game. I feel like we taken our first step into a larger world........a world full of carebears and Muppets! Seriously though im waiting for the dl but havent seen an answer for this. Does the new " anti pvp err ganking " system now basically let me sit in front of the enemy capital all day and night and never have to worry about getting chased off ? Yes my friends and i cant play together unless we want to do math before every fight then either ONLY attack the perfect br ships going by and let everyone else have a free pass ( seems fair) or some of us just dont get to play that night. What am i missing
Dharus Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) We are all family here so we will tell it as it is. People who oppose 1.5 change are supporting ganking from our opinion. Wolves will always find ways to find food. Ship speeds, land in battles, 2 minute timers, and defensive tagging are all good. Most of it is skill based. BR mechanics are not and players will expoit it. Are you then going to change the calculation mechanics again?Taken to the 1000th. If my groupmates and myself cannot play together because of a calculator, then OW is a waste. We'd have more fun in large/small battles simply because we can all play as a group. Then playing arena is counter to sandbox. Arena battles, again taken to 1,000 times, can be boring because of it's inherent repetitive nature. This isn't sandbox. It also isn't a support of ganking but group play on a OW sandbox. Fairness is for arenas. Edited April 13, 2016 by Dharus 1
la Touche-Treville Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Please post a link that shows the results of what 80% of your players want. In an RvR environment any mechanic that limits who can participate in pvp will erode the entire reason for having RvR in the first place. Why would you ever want to shrink who can participate in a PVP fight? However assuming this is your goal this new mechanic certainly isn't the answer. Since now we have to make 100% sure that everyone is moving at the same speed to minimize the ADD effects of keeping cats corralled and sailing in the same clump all this mechanic does is insure that everyone is sailing in the same ships. Now that tackling is over you will no longer see combined arms ships. Privateers and Pickles, Niagra's and 3rds will no longer be able to sail together. Everyone will sail a tackler and a low BR tackler at that. This BR limit just negated all the work you guys have done to create a wide variety of ships. The days of sailing a Live Oak ship to a pvp battle isn't going to happen. If you aren't in a Fir speed Tricom/Niagra/Ren you will end up outside of the circle most of the time and sitting in the open sea's with nothing to do. This mechanic discourages group PVP and will eventually lead to everyone basically sailing 1 or 2 types of ships in the open sea's. It certainly doesn't address ganking since that is easily overcome. Most people are still going to encounter 3 v 1 fights and complain about ganking. Now all you have done is instead of allowing a 5 v 1 over a 3 v 1 is you told the 2 people who couldn't get in the battle that they don't get to play the game. They will sail off instead of sitting there for an hour and hopefully find another fight that doesn't split them up. Eventually all you have is a bunch of small groups totally unconnected unless people want to just sit there for an hour doing nothing. All you have accomplished with the open sea BR mechanic is discourage group play and reduce the usefulness of most of your ships for open sea combat. Are you sure 80% of your players want this? What's new? Gankers were already sailing nothing but fast ships. As someone already stated: Sail a slow ship and get ganked is your problem mate. It's easy to avoid ganking, just sail the fastest ship.(irony inside) Anyway enough said on this topic, nothing will prevent those seal clubbers from crying and calling this patch a huge mistake. Let's first give it a go and see if in one week NA has lost 50% of its community Edited April 13, 2016 by la Touche-Treville 1
Mrdoomed Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 We are all family here so we will tell it as it is. People who oppose 1.5 change are supporting ganking from our opinion. Wolves will always find ways to find food. Well technically no the wolves dont. Once enough of their natural habitat and prey is removed from encroachment and artificial involvements from man then the wolf faces two choices. Kill and feed on domestic livestock and be killed by mad farmers or to starve. Neither is a good outcome for wolves. The best is to let wolves be wolves and sick lame deer to be prey.
Enraged Ewok Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 Ship speeds, land in battles, 2 minute timers, and defensive tagging are all good. Most of it is skill based. BR mechanics are not and players will expoit it. Are you then going to change the calculation mechanics again? Taken to the 1000th. If my groupmates and myself cannot play together because of a calculator, then OW is a waste. We'd have more fun in large/small battles simply because we can all play as a group. Then playing arena is counter to sandbox. Arena battles, again taken to 1,000 times, can be boring because of it's inherent repetitive nature. This isn't sandbox. It also isn't a support of ganking but group play on a OW sandbox. Fairness is for arenas. I was under the impression that as long as your BR wasn't too high to bounce fail the attack to begin with, everyone in the attack circle goes in. I was under the impression that the 1.5x limit kicks in for players trying to join after the battle instance has started. I haven't been able to play and test yet though. Is that correct, or not? 2
Abuu Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 all movies end. You got the last rank - experienced things you wanted. Why somebody needs to put you on some imaginary treadmill with a carrot in front of you? Ah.. actually You can reroll to spain and bring caribbean back to the spanish crown- how does that sound? Or Suppress the piracy for example. this wasnt a movie... more like a short film to be honest im playing sweden... so i think im already playing an underdog and underpopulated nation why should i leave my clan and all the friends i made to play on another nation? i was in almost every raid against the dutch the past weeks and the whole portbattle system turned out to be pretty borring... why should it be different on another nation? its still sitting in ports waiting for defend or till u are able to buy a flag... this is an mmo and to be honest every good endgame has a little carrot in front of you... just checkout DAoC with there pvp rank system (u need 2 years at the beginning in 2002 to reach RR12.0) or WOW with there Itemgrind system (i dont like it because its based on luck) this is what keeps u motivated... to improve your char/ship/avatar every time u play, even if its just for 0,0001% more reload time or more sailing speed. with the xp nerf from todays patch a lot of people will reach the endgame (rear admiral rank) soon and i can promise u that the player numbers will sink dramatically in the next 3-4 weeks i know its early access and i know what it stands for BUT u (the devs) just fooled yourself with this xp nerf. the old xp system was perfect to buy you, the devs, more time to implement more features before the big mass of players hit the last rank... now u lost about 3-4 weeks believe me or not, but u need to implement the officer/crew lvl system ASAP... even before the diplomatic or the new pb system with land and forts in it! And this is coming from a player who played ALOT of pb during the past 2 month and who suffered under the diplomatic problems that can occur with rouge clans like DRUNK 1
la Touche-Treville Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 I was under the impression that as long as your BR wasn't too high to bounce fail the attack to begin with, everyone in the attack circle goes in. I was under the impression that the 1.5x limit kicks in for players trying to join after the battle instance has started. I haven't been able to play and test yet though. Is that correct, or not? This is my understanding to. But it now obliges the attacking team to carefully tag once everyone is in that circle or else some will be left out with now possibility in joining if the initial attack is over that 1.5x BR mark
Vernon Merrill Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 I would like to point out some issues with the 1.5 BR. First of all it turns a night with a group of friends sailing out into the blue into a math game. Uh... what is his BR? Can we all get in? And of course the mechanic will be abused. Players that organize will be punished as some of them are forced to sit out fights, subject to splitting and subsequent ganking, and generally not having as fun in a game completely determined by player actions (i.e. if you sail alone...). More numbers, when someone gets ganked (say 8:1), eight players are having fun vs one player that is miserable for the moment. I have been on both sides and I find that when I am in a hopeless cause, the best you can do is turn and fight and try to get max XP before you sink. Such is life. Now, because of the artificial BR nonsense, you will have more players getting cut out of battles; a particular misery if you are with a group of friends and you are forced to wait on a lengthy battle, plus the chances of you getting sucked into another battle and then separated from your friends. It is asinine. Make this game player driven. Don't punish people that sail together. If people hate ganking so much, they should organize or just not take the game so seriously. Plus, it does not take much to make the gankers the gankees. This type of game (with "real" loss) will always have players crying about fairness. They will be the vocal minority while the rest of the player base is having fun sinking them. When POTBS started artificially protecting players by mechanics, two things happened. The mechanics were abused and the game population dropped. The first time my group is split and people are forced to sit out a fight is when I will start thinking about moving on from this game. No, what this does is actually make you change your tactics slightly. Now you can appoint a squadron commander to assign tasks. i.e. I need two ships to pursue that frigate off to the SE. We will rendezvous post battle at X coordinates or 5 mins sail off port X. C'mon guys, use your imagination a little but before going berserk on the forums. There are so many ways to play the game and yes, you can still communicate AT ALL TIMES via Teamspeak. If anything this should promote more diverse gameplay. 2
Dharus Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) I was under the impression that as long as your BR wasn't too high to bounce fail the attack to begin with, everyone in the attack circle goes in. I was under the impression that the 1.5x limit kicks in for players trying to join after the battle instance has started. I haven't been able to play and test yet though. Is that correct, or not? It means if you attack a fleet of 800 BR with 4 Tricoms (800 br), your friend in his 3rd rate who wasn't fast enough to get in a circle will be sitting outside holding his **** probably only to be ganked by the other group of monoboat Tricoms... Edited April 13, 2016 by Dharus
Enraged Ewok Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 It means if you attack a fleet of 800 BR with 4 Tricoms (800 br), your friend in his 3rd rate will be sitting outside holding his **** probably only to be ganked by the other group of monoboat Tricoms... So it randomly chooses someone to not let in to the battle even if they are in the tag circle when the countdown hits 0? Because that seems wrong from several perspectives.
Hugo van Grojt Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 The one change that was uncalled for was making NPC ships other than Trade ships uncapable. The one thing I found even remotely enjoyable and it's been removed, this game gets shelved till the Dev team comes to it's senses and reinstates it. The cappable NPC feature was removed so that CONTENT could be added. Why is everybody complaining about it? I love seeing Victories sailing on the ocean, large AI fleets to fight, all ships in the NPC shop, more variation in player missions. Soooo much content - and only possible by disabling the NPC capture feature. Why do people not enjoy what we got, instead of whining about what we lost? I will certainly enjoy sinking my first AI Victory! 5
Vernon Merrill Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 So it randomly chooses someone to not let in to the battle even if they are in the tag circle when the countdown hits 0? Because that seems wrong from several perspectives. No, you were right in your initial interpretation...,. He's saying the 3rd wont get in because its too slow to be in the initial tag... 1
Enraged Ewok Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 No, you were right in your initial interpretation...,. He's saying the 3rd wont get in because its too slow to be in the initial tag... Then I see no gameplay issue, I see a player issue. Keep station better and you won't have members of the squadron alone in the OW. 5
surfimp Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 We are all family here so we will tell it as it is. People who oppose 1.5 change are supporting ganking from our opinion. Wolves will always find ways to find food. The 1.5BR is only after the battle is initiated, i.e. within the 2min join timer. So there's nothing preventing a big gank squad from overloading the BR... they just need to do it at the time of battle initiation. Sure, this takes away the "stealth gank" thing, but oh well... 2
Babble Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 I love the laissez faire attitude taken towards anyone against the BR change. Assuming we all sit in ports and jump on helpless mission runningers. Clubbing seals. Talentless hacks. Aside from the skill and creativity it takes to come up with any of those tactics i find the generalization to be false. Bach is in every thread reasonably arguing that the change does more to stop people from helping those ganked then it does to stop gankers. Slamz is talking about the skill and enjoyment of fighting outnumbered. Several others have commented that they just dont want their group to get split since it ruins the entire evening trying to re-group I asked this question in another thread but i only got one response. I ask that anyone or everyone respond and give us an idea of your game experience since the game world is so vast and things may vary. How many times have you been successfully ganked? What were you doing at the time of the gank?
Jerome Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 No, what this does is actually make you change your tactics slightly. Now you can appoint a squadron commander to assign tasks. i.e. I need two ships to pursue that frigate off to the SE. We will rendezvous post battle at X coordinates or 5 mins sail off port X. C'mon guys, use your imagination a little but before going berserk on the forums. There are so many ways to play the game and yes, you can still communicate AT ALL TIMES via Teamspeak. If anything this should promote more diverse gameplay. Yes, our friends can listen to the fight in TS. And I have been playing the game for a while, rendezvous at sea is not easy. Especially when you started as a group. Mechanics should not push players around.
Vernon Merrill Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 Option B, you dont HAVE to engage that target.... I mean, c'mon.... You guys are looking for "answers" where there is no problems.... AGAIN, you can STILL massively out-BR a target, you may just have to be more lucky in your tag... All the new rules do is give a player slightly better chance to either escape or a SLIGHTLY more even fight... PLEASE, lets give it a few days before we all jump off a bridge. 1
Dharus Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) So it randomly chooses someone to not let in to the battle even if they are in the tag circle when the countdown hits 0? Because that seems wrong from several perspectives.No. If the 3rd gets in, he's good. The problem is 3rds are beasts on the OW and faster, more maneuvering ships will have it easier to get in a circle.Basically, it's more than likely going to force players who want to "gank" into fast monoboating groups so they can all enter the circle. If groups are mixed, they'll be limited by the slowest ship. So, in my example, the person who is sailing a 3rd is gonna struggle to get in a battle circle if his friends can speed away. They'll need to wait for him, possibly losing a battle target, or leave him outside the battle solo. We'll see how this plays out but by eyeballing it it's gonna spilt people up. It's splitting and players will calculate BR for the speedy ships and use them to isolate people. Run from the main force and jump the guy outside. Edited April 13, 2016 by Dharus
admin Posted April 13, 2016 Author Posted April 13, 2016 i know its early access and i know what it stands for BUT u (the devs) just fooled yourself with this xp nerf. the old xp system was perfect to buy you, the devs, more time to implement more features before the big mass of players hit the last rank... now u lost about 3-4 weeks If hardcore players say xp is too easy now - it means its just right for an average player. XP change is a great change allowing players to try ships they want and sail their favorite ship or move on. 3
Enraged Ewok Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 No. If the 3rd gets in, he's good. The problem is 3rds are beasts on the OW and faster, more maneuvering ships will have it easier to get in a circle. Basically, it's more than likely going to force players who want to "gank" into fast monoboating groups so they can all enter the circle. If groups are mixed, they'll be limited by the slowest ship. So, in my example, the person who is sailing a 3rd is gonna struggle to get in a battle circle if his friends can speed away. They'll need to wait for him, possibly losing a battle target, or leave him outside the battle solo. We'll see how this plays out but by eyeballing it it's gonna spilt people up. It's splitting and players will calculate BR for the speedy ships and use them to isolate people. Run from the main force and jump the guy outside. I see no reason why you shouldn't be using faster ships for your ganks, rather than slow as molasses SoLs. So what is the complaint? If you want to gank with a 3rd rate in the group, make sure he's in the tag circle before initiating the battle. This will limit your prey to targets the 3rd rate has favorable wind on, but that's a decision you make when you leave port with a SoL in the gank squad. 2
Quineloe Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 The 1.5BR is only after the battle is initiated, i.e. within the 2min join timer. So there's nothing preventing a big gank squad from overloading the BR... they just need to do it at the time of battle initiation. Sure, this takes away the "stealth gank" thing, but oh well... Taking away the stealth gank may be the best change in this patch. 4
Recommended Posts