Patch 9.7 - Land sighted

[Skippy]

Watch this video or just skip to 29:00 and hear the man say that sinking a ship was nearly impossible! the leaking system is flatly wrong not realistic and not historic.

 

https://youtu.be/Jl3stf20X10?list=PLD80gKrNSwFJH4l5S-0iEUZ1Lk5HGLxW-

Thanks for that video

[Capt. Rice]

might have to hop back on and see how this all is...

[Enraged Ewok]

might have to hop back on and see how this all is...

 

I would start with a smaller ship (see all the tears over lost rated SoLs). I was having a blast mauling British player ships last night off of Jamaica in a basic Mercury. Waterline hits are really something to be feared now, especially in the smaller ships.

[Skippy]

Yeah waterline shot were not that effective and sinking bigger ship like that.. holes were easily plugged. big ship were pretty hard to sink actually, even between themself. I dont want to have always leak sinking our ships all the time.  its absurd.  The system of leak was already pretty good, just dont change good things that are not broken. Anyway i think they brought the system back to what it was before the patch, reading about the hotfix tread

 

Now after that excellent patch, the thing to focus will be ware and peace mecanic and pirates rules

[Enraged Ewok]

Which is utterly absurd.

 

I fail to see why waterline hits should not be a serious liability to a ship's ability to fight. Please enlighten me.

 

 

Yeah waterline shot were not that effective and sinking bigger ship like that.. holes were easily plugged. big ship were pretty hard to sink actually, even between themself. I dont want to have always leak sinking our ships all the time.  its absurd.  The system of leak was already pretty good, just dont change good things that are not broken. Anyway i think they brought the system back to what it was before the patch, reading about the hotfix tread

 

Now after that excellent patch, the thing to focus will be ware and peace mecanic and pirates rules

 

First off, I think you missed the admin's explanation of how the new leak mechanics work: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13233-ai-shootingdamageleaks-feedback-moderated/ .Leaks are only a threat if they are below the waterline. Different sized guns make different sized holes (they did not use to do this) and require different numbers of men to plug. All leaks require the same amount of time to plug. If these leaks are not plugged, your ship will eventually take on too much water and sink. This is based in reality. Being made of wood does not magically make a warship near impossible to sink, especially when it's heavily laden with guns, men, supplies, and ballast. 

 

Second off, I think you misunderstood what was in the hotfix. The leaks from gunfire are still the same as they were in 9.7. What was changed was the massive leaking from ramming, which I do think was somewhat over the top but at the same time closer to reality than what we had, which was bumper boats. Also, if you read the hotfix thread, you'd know that the leaks and bot damage we have now are the results of bugs being fixed, not bugs introduced.

 

EDIT: spelling and thread link

Edited April 14, 2016 by Enraged Ewok

[Marcomies]

Regardless of how realistic it might be, being able to insta-sink even just a small ship with couple big holes to the waterline is not good for the gameplay. It ruins the balance of hull-shots (sinking) vs rake-shots (crew, guns) vs sails-shots (speed, mobility) and makes the waterline shots only real way to go as it ties down the target crew to fixing the leaks and working the pumps, slows down the ship if it starts taking water and sometimes even sinks it before the armor is taken down. Overall this change speeds up the combat too much and makes ships too vulnerable.

 

I'm not saying that the leaking from gunshot leaks should be reverted back to the pre-patch level on pointlessness but it should be scaled down and maybe softly capped so that the extreme cases like 5 second sinking times would not be possible. In my opinion a ship with armor left should never have an uncontrollable leak that results to unavoidable sinking as long as it has at least a third of its crew left.

[Vijar]

Some things like the new ramming / leaking mechanic might need some more tuning of course. But otherwise it's a great patch and I really enjoy it.

 

I also like it that capturing warships from ai is disabled now. Most people were just using cheap captured 3rd rates for anything.

[Skippy]

Regardless of how realistic it might be, being able to insta-sink even just a small ship with couple big holes to the waterline is not good for the gameplay. It ruins the balance of hull-shots (sinking) vs rake-shots (crew, guns) vs sails-shots (speed, mobility) and makes the waterline shots only real way to go as it ties down the target crew to fixing the leaks and working the pumps, slows down the ship if it starts taking water and sometimes even sinks it before the armor is taken down. Overall this change speeds up the combat too much and makes ships too vulnerable.

 

I'm not saying that the leaking from gunshot leaks should be reverted back to the pre-patch level on pointlessness but it should be scaled down and maybe softly capped so that the extreme cases like 5 second sinking times would not be possible. In my opinion a ship with armor left should never have an uncontrollable leak that results to unavoidable sinking as long as it has at least a third of its crew left.

 

 

Yes I agree with you. Ships with armor left should not have uncontrollable leaks and sink because of that. 

The leak system is too rash. this evening one of my friend lost a dura of his frigate from a shalow ship, who shoted him below water level.. and he was with a lot of armor left. Need a hotfix for this. if you have crews you should be able to always patch a leak if you still have armor left.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Skippy

[Dragonfire]

Some things like the new ramming / leaking mechanic might need some more tuning of course. But otherwise it's a great patch and I really enjoy it.

 

I also like it that capturing warships from ai is disabled now. Most people were just using cheap captured 3rd rates for anything.

 

Well it really killed a lot of peoples enjoyment so can't see how that is a good thing ever.

Also small nations that don't have that many ports relied on breaking those ships for parts to be able to compete with the mega crafter nations with unlimited resources on a smaller scale but now I see it in the ports parts are drying up to build with.

 

Again not a good thing so killing the ai might just cripple a smaller nation that was keeping afloat to an extent due to being able to have a parts source.

 

Didn't think about that huh

[Geoffroi Bonfils]

My data/experience

 

1) AI ships, that bob on the water like a cork in a jacuzzi, fire 'round' cannon balls at 800 yards with accuracy rivaling M1 Abrams computer controlled laser range finder fin stabilized discarding sabot rounds.

2) AI ships, even reduced to 70% sails, can make 7+ knts close hauled with a turn radius like that of modern harbor tugs

3) Not one single solitary "contraband" or foreign trader has be spotted in 5+ hours of active searching and gameplay

4) Fighting an AI Mercury with my exceptional Oak Build Strength Snow resulted in me giving the AI 7 leaks, which did nothing, and the AI giving me 2 leaks and me sinking in 3 minutes.

 

Thoughts

 

Forcing players/customers to waste 2 hours watching empty stretches of ocean to transport resources to a shipyard or point of sale is not entertaining in the least.

 

This is a game, not a simulation, references to "real life" are meaningless, however, criticism to entertainment value is pertinent. If the computer is going to be insane accurate then give the player 'tab targeting' and RNG hit percentage based on upgrades/skill level/etc. The AI didn't give Game Labs $40 for this game, I did, know who you need to please. If you want to make the AI more difficult, yet fair, reduce it's accuracy by a order of magnitude but increase the HP of the AI ships while under AI control.

 

Economies that force the player to pay whatever profiteer prices other players set because they cannot produce all the resources needed for crafting (this is especially true now that there aren't any Trade Ships that might be carrying the resources you need) are doomed to failure.

[Scud]

Been playing for 12+ hours since patch now. I stand behind my previous statement that removing AI ship capping because of 3rd rate spam is the wrong move. I disagree with removing the best pve mechanic in the game to address a pvp "exploit?" (I question how relevant the argument on that is, but have little experience on the matter so will leave it alone) . The incentive to attack AI fleets, for me, is gone. I have fought very little. A few battles to check out new mechanics, beyond that I have mostly just sailed around monotonously selling trade goods to make money for crafting. This is not fun. The day before the patch I spent 5 hours playing this game with my cousin and had probably as much fun as I have ever had playing a game, we sailed from port to port in whatever vessels we capped along the way, just having a grand time in general. Explain to me how this creates a problem relating to the 3rd spam in PB? Exactly, it doesn't......  2 days later I find myself wondering why I am playing, I pass up various ai fleets and do very few missions, because there is very little incentive to attack. This is ruining the game for me, please reconsider the decision to remove ai capping of warships entirely. I suggest investigating some sort of a solution targeted directly at SotL spam problem, a cooldown on caps for 3rd rate and higher perhaps? Please find a palatable solution soon! I have several friends who are now on hold with buying this game specifically because of this.

[Quineloe]

Are the new shop ships really in? I visited a few ports so far and I haven't noticed anything different. I only see Cherubims and Constitutions, and those were in before the patch.

 

Never mind that a Fir constitution with grey stiffness is not something I want take into a fight

[Enraged Ewok]

It's completely historically inaccurate, for one.  Excepting magazine explosions, there's zero records of tall ships sinking from a dozen broadsides or less.  Ships would lose all their masts, lose so much crew they'd pump more blood than water from the bilge, and yet still float (see: HMS Shannon vs USS Chesapeake).

 

HMS Peacock vs USS Hornet to name one, and this is exactly how it works in game right now. You put shots into an area that is currently above the waterline due to the ship's heel, then tack. If your opponent follows you, the ship's heel forces those holes below the water and lets in a large amount of water. This is realistic, it adds strategy to the game instead of the bland constant maneuvering for a stern rake, and brings downsides to ships that previously had none (Trincomalee being the biggest offender).

 

 

It's bad for gameplay, for second.  The AI now aims for the lower hull and doesn't miss.  Ever.  This results in an absurd amount of leaks at higher levels and devoting massive amounts of crew to survival, which makes the game a cheap race for lower hull shots.  The game has become about gimmicky cheap shots.

 

It's great for gameplay as I said above. It's another layer of strategy for players to learn and use to their advantage. As for AI aiming, I have yet to see them shoot anywhere except my gundecks. I have not sustained more than 3 leaks (1 above and 2 below) to AI fire, and that was from 3 AIs plus a player Constitution shooting me. Number of men in survival has never exceeded 25% of the crew, which seems reasonable enough to me given the damage I had taken in that instance (rammed and shot by a Frigate in my Mercury). The only time it exceeded that, I was doomed anyway because all my side armor was gone. If you think this is just gimmicky cheap shots, then my suggestion to you is to fight from farther away to lessen your opponent's accuracy, or fight so close that they can't aim low enough to hit your waterline. Instead of complaining that everything is different, learn how the changes affect the battle and learn how to use them to your advantage.

 

 

An 18 pounder gun has a caliber of less than 6".  Assuming it: 1. Manages to hit below the waterline.  2.  Manages to penetrate a 1/4" thick layer of copper and/or 6+ inches of wood at a very oblique angle.  It is then rapidly plugged by 3-4 crew members.  It's literally a matter of getting a sledge, a bundle of sailcloth, and a wooden plug and hammering it in.  The leak is 99% contained within a few moments.

 

The way crew management currently works is the following: 1. Waterline hit causes a hole that begins letting in water 2. Men are assigned from the guns or rigging to man pumps and go below and plug the hole (number of men needed depends on the gun that made the hole) 3. Men go below, find the hole, and plug it 4. Men return to their stations on the gundeck and quartdeck

 

You are mistaken in thinking that a quarter inch sheath of copper provides much of anything in the way of "armor" for the hull, and that 6" of wood will do much to deter a solid shot from anything but the most extreme range. Refer to the linked chart for French penetration figures by range and gun weight http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2487-realistic-cannon-penetration/?p=51001

[Vernon Merrill]

But.....  But....   I was told I'd never lose a ship in this game....  even one of the MULTIPLE copies they already give me!!!

[maturin]

 

 

HMS Peacock vs USS Hornet to name one, 

It's worth pointing out that Peacock was hit with 32-pdr carronades. So you have the largest caliber ordinance against a very light hull, with smaller pumps that weren't up to the task. And even so, Peacock didn't sink without warning, but the water slowly gained until the ship surrendered to try and save itself.

[Skippy]

HMS Peacock vs USS Hornet to name one, and this is exactly how it works in game right now. You put shots into an area that is currently above the waterline due to the ship's heel, then tack. If your opponent follows you, the ship's heel forces those holes below the water and lets in a large amount of water. This is realistic, it adds strategy to the game instead of the bland constant maneuvering for a stern rake, and brings downsides to ships that previously had none (Trincomalee being the biggest offender).

 

 

 

It's great for gameplay as I said above. It's another layer of strategy for players to learn and use to their advantage. As for AI aiming, I have yet to see them shoot anywhere except my gundecks. I have not sustained more than 3 leaks (1 above and 2 below) to AI fire, and that was from 3 AIs plus a player Constitution shooting me. Number of men in survival has never exceeded 25% of the crew, which seems reasonable enough to me given the damage I had taken in that instance (rammed and shot by a Frigate in my Mercury). The only time it exceeded that, I was doomed anyway because all my side armor was gone. If you think this is just gimmicky cheap shots, then my suggestion to you is to fight from farther away to lessen your opponent's accuracy, or fight so close that they can't aim low enough to hit your waterline. Instead of complaining that everything is different, learn how the changes affect the battle and learn how to use them to your advantage.

 

 

 

The way crew management currently works is the following: 1. Waterline hit causes a hole that begins letting in water 2. Men are assigned from the guns or rigging to man pumps and go below and plug the hole (number of men needed depends on the gun that made the hole) 3. Men go below, find the hole, and plug it 4. Men return to their stations on the gundeck and quartdeck

 

You are mistaken in thinking that a quarter inch sheath of copper provides much of anything in the way of "armor" for the hull, and that 6" of wood will do much to deter a solid shot from anything but the most extreme range. Refer to the linked chart for French penetration figures by range and gun weight http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2487-realistic-cannon-penetration/?p=51001

Its bad for the gamplay, this is not a simulation of real life.  Having a smaller ship with 6pds canon sinkling a frigate at the early fight, because he caused leak that cannot be repaired its wrong... and that in the time of 2 minute... wich is even more wrong, whatever you say about it. And having ships sinking all the time like this is inacurrate anyway. The exemple you provide was not hapening all the time like it is right now, it was happening a very few time., you have to be very lucky to get a leak that sink a ship when the ship not really well damaged.  Yes the balls was abler to penetrate, but penetration doesnt mean you sink and leak to death.. penetration make a small hole into the wood, wich was very easy to repair for the plug crew. you really needed lot of leaks under water level, and that was hard to achieve. Most of the time the hole were done direct on the broad side.

this is what happened with 6pds canon shooting at First ship of the line. And watch also the historical movie Admiral 2015, its a Deutch movie about ships battle of that time.  A consitution (like the Archeon in Master and Commander books and movie (the books are made by someone with huge knoledge of that kind of ship with technical language), you see, the ships were not easyily sinkable by the Surprise... and to finish off you opponent in that time you needed to either board him or shot him like no tomorrow.

DEV: Also.. by reading from other people and by experiencing myself.. i think the problem is about smaller ship... it looks like ships with 6 pds gun cause too much uncontrollable leaks and make bigger ship  sink when they still have lot of crew and armor.. this cannot be in  a game.  if you have crews you should be able to always patch a leak if you still have armor left... so that kind of leak should be capped that way.  I fought battle with bigger ship and i didnt have that problem, but when a frig get sunk from a Navy Brig due to leak, and that even if we are not damaged, this is a problem you need to at least investigate.  Remember this is a game, and even in history, this was not hapening that often... this should be really a very rare occasion that you get that kind of leak in these occasion so i dont see why its happening often now.  Small ship canon canot make sink a bigger ship like a frig or a Frig sink easy a ship of the line that easily.. they need to shoot a lot at him first, have it damaged, penetrating his armor not easy too.

Question: Where are gone all the AI fleet wandering around the sea???  They kind of disapear.. i like seeing lot of sails on the sea, why its almost empty now?? I like trader ship sailiong, having big AI fleet with multiple kind of ship in them, mix of ship of the line and smaller ship... now they are gone   I like your new fleet order, really fun, but this is not a reason to get rid of the rest , i like attacking ship from other nation that are not in a mission. Please bring them back pls. Also, in your fleet order, you should make scenario with us attacking other nation ships, not only neutral ship.

I like the fact that we cannot cap npc ship anymore. But could you make the NPC sell some better quality ships in the shop??  Like commun at least with oak and teak wood with 1 perma upgrade and 2 upgrade.  That would make it better. And also i almost didnt see ship npc for sale.. should have more.. you said all type up to heavy frigate.. were are they?

 

I like the new accuracy and behiavior of the npc ships now, this is awesome, they fight well.. so this is pretty good.

Land is terrific and awesome

 

Anyway, keep up the good work, i like your game

Edited April 15, 2016 by Skippy

[Enraged Ewok]

It's worth pointing out that Peacock was hit with 32-pdr carronades. So you have the largest caliber ordinance against a very light hull, with smaller pumps that weren't up to the task. And even so, Peacock didn't sink without warning, but the water slowly gained until the ship surrendered to try and save itself.

 

She did sink far faster than anyone expected though, as twelve men did drown below deck (three of which were from the Hornet) when she went down. There wasn't time to bring all of the British prisoners over to the Hornet before Peacock went under, and several were rescued from the water. 

 

 

Its bad for the gamplay, this is not a simulation of real life.  Having a smaller ship with 6pds canon sinkling a frigate at the early fight, because he caused leak that cannot be repaired its wrong... and that in the time of 2 minute... wich is even more wrong, whatever you say about it. And having ships sinking all the time like this is inacurrate anyway. The exemple you provide was not hapening all the time like it is right now, it was happening a very few time., you have to be very lucky to get a leak that sink a ship when the ship not really well damaged.  Yes the balls was abler to penetrate, but penetration doesnt mean you sink and leak to death.. penetration make a small hole into the wood, wich was very easy to repair for the plug crew. you really needed lot of leaks under water level, and that was hard to achieve. Most of the time the hole were done direct on the broad side.

 

First off, the devs do intend for the battle instances to be a relatively accurat age of sail battle. The difference is that unless they want to cap the ship for their own use, most players will aim to sink it, meaning more waterline hits (assuming player skill is good enough for it). As you said yourself, ships tended to end up disabled in reality because gunfire hits tended to be either in the rigging or high along the sides to damage or destroy the areas where the shrouds meet the hull, as well as to put guns and crew out of action. On the occasions where two ships of similar strength did get multiple effective broadsides low in the hull (as exemplified by Peacock vs Hornet), the receiving ship was likely to sink. This has been my experience so far with the patch (Mercury vs Brig, I put multiple leaks below the waterline at close range on the brig using 24pd carronades, and he sank with 50% of his right side armor intact).

 

6pd guns causing a frigate to sink through leaks alone seems wrong, so if you have evidence of this (from either video or screenshot), by all means post it. But a cutter should be able to sink a cutter through leaks, and a frigate should be able to sink another frigate through leaks (to say nothing of larger ships putting leaks in the smaller ones). 

 

I would also caution against using the Spanish Armada documentary as a source. Yes, it was sailing ships and cannons. However, there was anywhere from 50 years to 130 years going off the ships currently ingame for advancements in powder, metallurgy, and manufacturing. This means tighter windage, higher bore pressures, and greater power and accuracy at a given range. 

[Brasco]

It's worth pointing out that Peacock was hit with 32-pdr carronades. So you have the largest caliber ordinance against a very light hull, with smaller pumps that weren't up to the task. And even so, Peacock didn't sink without warning, but the water slowly gained until the ship surrendered to try and save itself.

Thank you for setting the record straight here. Ships were not sunk in this manner in reality and besides, i keep hearing from the testers and the devs on realism. Realism this, Historical that...Give me a BREAK with Realism! THIS IS A GAME. It has to be something enjoyable! So whether you agree it's realistic to sink a 3rd rate ship with a mercury, is not the issue here guys! The issue is that the game has to be playable. Hell, more than just playable, How about Fun to Play?

[Brasco]

Its bad for the gamplay, this is not a simulation of real life.  Having a smaller ship with 6pds canon sinkling a frigate at the early fight, because he caused leak that cannot be repaired its wrong... and that in the time of 2 minute... wich is even more wrong, whatever you say about it. And having ships sinking all the time like this is inacurrate anyway. The exemple you provide was not hapening all the time like it is right now, it was happening a very few time., you have to be very lucky to get a leak that sink a ship when the ship not really well damaged.  Yes the balls was abler to penetrate, but penetration doesnt mean you sink and leak to death.. penetration make a small hole into the wood, wich was very easy to repair for the plug crew. you really needed lot of leaks under water level, and that was hard to achieve. Most of the time the hole were done direct on the broad side.

this is what happened with 6pds canon shooting at First ship of the line. And watch also the historical movie Admiral 2015, its a Deutch movie about ships battle of that time.  A consitution (like the Archeon in Master and Commander books and movie (the books are made by someone with huge knoledge of that kind of ship with technical language), you see, the ships were not easyily sinkable by the Surprise... and to finish off you opponent in that time you needed to either board him or shot him like no tomorrow.

DEV: Also.. by reading from other people and by experiencing myself.. i think the problem is about smaller ship... it looks like ships with 6 pds gun cause too much uncontrollable leaks and make bigger ship  sink when they still have lot of crew and armor.. this cannot be in  a game.  if you have crews you should be able to always patch a leak if you still have armor left... so that kind of leak should be capped that way.  I fought battle with bigger ship and i didnt have that problem, but when a frig get sunk from a Navy Brig due to leak, and that even if we are not damaged, this is a problem you need to at least investigate.  Remember this is a game, and even in history, this was not hapening that often... this should be really a very rare occasion that you get that kind of leak in these occasion so i dont see why its happening often now.  Small ship canon canot make sink a bigger ship like a frig or a Frig sink easy a ship of the line that easily.. they need to shoot a lot at him first, have it damaged, penetrating his armor not easy too.

Question: Where are gone all the AI fleet wandering around the sea???  They kind of disapear.. i like seeing lot of sails on the sea, why its almost empty now?? I like trader ship sailiong, having big AI fleet with multiple kind of ship in them, mix of ship of the line and smaller ship... now they are gone   I like your new fleet order, really fun, but this is not a reason to get rid of the rest , i like attacking ship from other nation that are not in a mission. Please bring them back pls. Also, in your fleet order, you should make scenario with us attacking other nation ships, not only neutral ship.

I like the fact that we cannot cap npc ship anymore. But could you make the NPC sell some better quality ships in the shop??  Like commun at least with oak and teak wood with 1 perma upgrade and 2 upgrade.  That would make it better. And also i almost didnt see ship npc for sale.. should have more.. you said all type up to heavy frigate.. were are they?

 

I like the new accuracy and behiavior of the npc ships now, this is awesome, they fight well.. so this is pretty good.

Land is terrific and awesome

 

Anyway, keep up the good work, i like your game

Well Said Skippy! and that video is very telling! But if you are reading this and don't want to watch the entire documentary just go to roughly 28:30 in the video and listen to how they explain what would actually happen when the cannon balls would hit, and below the waterline at that! Great INFO!

[elvismolotov]

what happened to the duel ? i mean no reward at all for playing duel is one thing ...but not even knowing what ship to bring to duel and no communication possible in the matchupscreen ...thats just bad !

[Skippy]

ok

 

 

She did sink far faster than anyone expected though, as twelve men did drown below deck (three of which were from the Hornet) when she went down. There wasn't time to bring all of the British prisoners over to the Hornet before Peacock went under, and several were rescued from the water. 

 

 

 

First off, the devs do intend for the battle instances to be a relatively accurat age of sail battle. The difference is that unless they want to cap the ship for their own use, most players will aim to sink it, meaning more waterline hits (assuming player skill is good enough for it). As you said yourself, ships tended to end up disabled in reality because gunfire hits tended to be either in the rigging or high along the sides to damage or destroy the areas where the shrouds meet the hull, as well as to put guns and crew out of action. On the occasions where two ships of similar strength did get multiple effective broadsides low in the hull (as exemplified by Peacock vs Hornet), the receiving ship was likely to sink. This has been my experience so far with the patch (Mercury vs Brig, I put multiple leaks below the waterline at close range on the brig using 24pd carronades, and he sank with 50% of his right side armor intact).

 

6pd guns causing a frigate to sink through leaks alone seems wrong, so if you have evidence of this (from either video or screenshot), by all means post it. But a cutter should be able to sink a cutter through leaks, and a frigate should be able to sink another frigate through leaks (to say nothing of larger ships putting leaks in the smaller ones). 

 

I would also caution against using the Spanish Armada documentary as a source. Yes, it was sailing ships and cannons. However, there was anywhere from 50 years to 130 years going off the ships currently ingame for advancements in powder, metallurgy, and manufacturing. This means tighter windage, higher bore pressures, and greater power and accuracy at a given range. 

 

 

 

yeah, i was not complaining about same ship vs same ship.. more like a small ship sinking a really bigger ship.
I dont have evidence but you can find a lot of report in the patch note from players already, and its always about smaller ship sinking bigger. Need to be investigated.  My friend didnt keep evidence but i trust him. 

 

otherwise everything else is good

[Geoffroi Bonfils]

By the way, the contraband trade ships are back, thank you Devs. I'm sure the Devs have data tables showing number of battles fought, people online, etc. and I'm pretty sure from here in the cheap seats that it was a ghost town after the patch and removal of AI trade ships, it didn't have the desired effect of creating more PvP but instead created PvB (Player vs Boredom). Even going to the enemy shipping lanes was no guarantee and most of my clan was getting a bit testy at sailing for 2 hours and finding squat in the way of justifiable prizes (risk/reward wasn't there with a single trade Lynx guarded by three ships).

 

At the end of the day the game has to be enjoyable, not just semi accurate historically. Getting face rolled by the AI isn't fun, getting face rolled by other players because of a flawed game mechanic isn't fun either.

 

As an alternate to the "anti ganking" might I suggest removing the 1.5 BR rule and extending the Invis/Invul timer after exiting battle/harbor to beyond the two minute entrance timer for combat. This way you don't get waffle stomped by invisible ships yet you can't thumb your nose at a vastly superior fleet either.

[Shepherd]

Are the new shop ships really in? I visited a few ports so far and I haven't noticed anything different. I only see Cherubims and Constitutions, and those were in before the patch.

 

Never mind that a Fir constitution with grey stiffness is not something I want take into a fight

 

Given how my exceptional live oak Constitution taking so much damage from the new precision-accurate AI of much smaller 5th rates, I would not want to take a fir Constitution into a fight either...

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Let's move conversation into the 9.72 thread please!