Define PVP

[Mayhem Like Me]

PvP is not, imo:

1.  Ganks  (I do not consider 2v1 a gank unless it's grossly outmatched ships, then it may be defined as seal clubbing (see 2)

2.  Seal clubbing

3.   RVR - as RVR  typically relates to #1 in my experiences  - also, consider a player that avoids the intense portion of a port battle and joins in only when they are assured of victory - do you consider this individual a pvp'r?

 

Ultimate PVP experience is:

1. 1 v 1

2. small, organized group - say 6 v 6

3. Closely matched ships and skill sets

 

 

 

 

 

[Galileus]

PvP is short for Player vs Player, as in a match whereas on both (or more) opposing sides players compete against each other.

 

As it is, all of your examples are, in fact, PvP.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

PvP is short for Player vs Player, as in a match whereas on both (or more) opposing sides players compete against each other.

 

As it is, all of your examples are, in fact, PvP.

 

Indeed.

 

But I get where Mayhem is trying to get to.

Even if a equal interception is made, let's say a frigate tags a frigate, nine out of 10 times the target will try to disengage. Apply same rule for renomees, trincs and similar.

Now a 6v6 is always a good match and gankers more often than not, DO avoid these at all costs even when in equal measure of ships and numbers.

 

There are notable exceptions that give way to the best of Naval Action.

[Galileus]

Where Mayhem is trying to get to is a flamewar territory. There is no "in my opinion", definition is a definition.

 

You might like one type of PvP more than any other, this does not make your opinion "the ultimate PvP" and all others "not PvP".

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Then..

 

Smart PvP is engaging the enemy with the least resources possible aka. the least ships for the maximum effect ( sink the enemy )

 

Rest is just PvP

[jodgi]

<snip>

I get what the others are saying, definitions vs. opinions.

But I get what you're saying too Mayhem, you're just defining what you view as good PVP and on that account we absolutely agree.

We're also getting duel room soon so we can have good PVP without working our asses off and getting tricksy with various OW mechanics to make it happen.

Edited April 10, 2016 by jodgi

[Pigafetta]

I had a couple of duels with fair adversaries... One was a Netherlands captain (Katana if I remember correctly) and we were on Belle Poules. 

I hope they will implement duels soon. It is a nice way to meet gallant captains and fight with equal chances.

Yes for duels. It maybe will accomplish what Mayhem is pointing at.

[Cragger]

To me PvP can be scaled infinitely. 1v1 or 100v100 doesn't matter. As long as both sides have a chance at winning I call it good PvP. 10 on 1 port jumping though, that's not PvP that's just a mob. 

[Galbatorix]

This is war, not a tournament. Only a dumb will look for equal fight in enemy waters.

[Pigafetta]

This is war, not a tournament. Only a dumb will look for equal fight in enemy waters.

Nice way to contribute to the conversation. Next time, please, keep words like "dumb" to yourself. And, BTW, this is not war, is a game

[jodgi]

This is war, not a tournament. Only a dumb will look for equal fight in enemy waters.

Not all of us role-play.

[Vaan De Vries]

PvP is not, imo:

1.  Ganks  (I do not consider 2v1 a gank unless it's grossly outmatched ships, then it may be defined as seal clubbing (see 2)

2.  Seal clubbing

3.   RVR - as RVR  typically relates to #1 in my experiences  - also, consider a player that avoids the intense portion of a port battle and joins in only when they are assured of victory - do you consider this individual a pvp'r?

 

Ultimate PVP experience is:

1. 1 v 1

2. small, organized group - say 6 v 6

3. Closely matched ships and skill sets

This is not some WOW game to introduce duels and such.

 

During age of sail nobody cared about fair or unfair fight. You either fight or strike down your flag. The rest will be decided by tribunal.

 

Please don't make this game into another "WOW on the sea". Let at least some historical accuracy be left.

[Aetrion]

This game doesn't really have PvP, it's more RvR (Realm vs. Realm). 

 

Viewed on a grand scale of empires being at war with each other the game makes sense, since unfair fights are a normal part of a war. On the small scale, fight by fight it's not really balanced for satisfying engagements though.

[Galileus]

This game doesn't really have PvP, it's more RvR (Realm vs. Realm). 

 

RvR is PvP

[Vaan De Vries]

Not all of us role-play.

There are tons of games offering balanced battle. There is even instanced balanced battles in port. From the number of players in them you can deduce how many people want to play RVR and how many people want to play "balanced PVP".

 

Just understand - it's nother type of the game. It's RVR. It;s not about dueling. It's about fighing against all odds if neccessery.

[Mayhem Like Me]

This is not some WOW game to introduce duels and such.

 

During age of sail nobody cared about fair or unfair fight. You either fight or strike down your flag. The rest will be decided by tribunal.

 

Please don't make this game into another "WOW on the sea". Let at least some historical accuracy be left.

 

I understand some are scared of 1 v 1 or fair fights - I never played WOW so I can not comment on what you say, but I do know 1 v 1 is fun pvp and I will always seek it.

[Vaan De Vries]

I understand some are scared of 1 v 1 or fair fights - I never played WOW so I can not comment on what you say, but I do know 1 v 1 is fun pvp and I will always seek it.

I fighted battles unfair in both ways. Unfair slightly and unfair a lot. I sacrifiiced ships for a great purpose when delaying PB flag. That's what is fun in this game. Don't accuse me or other not wanting artificial duels in being scared of loosing a dura.

 

When I want "fair" fights I go play WOT, WOWS or any other game offering this. There are tons of them specifically designed for "skill" and world tournaments and stuff.

 

This game I play for opportunity to feel just a bit as a naval officer of this time period. With all it's unfair fights.

 

Don't understand people coming to RVR game and asking for "duels mechanics". You are free to seek a duel in OW. Just be ready to get unfair fight instead.

 

Why can't you let just this game be without all this modern-games "balanced skilled PvP with ladders, leaderboards and stuff". Just to be able to point everybody how exactly cool you are?

 

I played WOT a lot for some time. I was in a 5% best players according to all this counters stuff playing alone. At the end I got sick about all this "balanced PvP". 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Vaan De Vries

[Pigafetta]

 

This game I play for opportunity to feel just a bit as a naval officer of this time period. With all it's unfair fights.

 

Don't understand people coming to RVR game and asking for "duels mechanics". You are free to seek a duel in OW. Just be ready to get unfair fight instead. 

 

 

Absolutely true. No one is asking to do only duels, or only fair fights.

The magic word, though, is options or opportunities if you wish. I'd like to have as many venues for a battle. And I think that duels serve to such purpose, giving us (players) as many opportunities to have fun. No one said that duels will replace other way to fight... but again more options are better than few.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Antonio_Pigafetta

[Mayhem Like Me]

I fighted battles unfair in both ways. Unfair slightly and unfair a lot. I sacrifiiced ships for a great purpose when delaying PB flag. That's what is fun in this game. Don't accuse me or other not wanting artificial duels in being scared of loosing a dura.

 

When I want "fair" fights I go play WOT, WOWS or any other game offering this. There are tons of them specifically designed for "skill" and world tournaments and stuff.

 

This game I play for opportunity to feel just a bit as a naval officer of this time period. With all it's unfair fights.

 

Don't understand people coming to RVR game and asking for "duels mechanics". You are free to seek a duel in OW. Just be ready to get unfair fight instead.

 

Why can't you let just this game be without all this modern-games "balanced skilled PvP with ladders, leaderboards and stuff". Just to be able to point everybody how exactly cool you are?

 

I played WOT a lot for some time. I was in a 5% best players according to all this counters stuff playing alone. At the end I got sick about all this "balanced PvP". 

 

You severely over-react to this post. I am sure you have fun in game or you will not play long and move on to new ventures.  Why are you so against others who want 1 v 1? Just because this game OFFERS RVR does not mean it does not offer 1 v 1.  This is bad logic to assume so.  Fair seas m8, I hope you enjoy your game as I enjoy mine!

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

You severely over-react to this post. I am sure you have fun in game or you will not play long and move on to new ventures.  Why are you so against others who want 1 v 1? Just because this game OFFERS RVR does not mean it does not offer 1 v 1.  This is bad logic to assume so.  Fair seas m8, I hope you enjoy your game as I enjoy mine!

 

Despite the overkill situations and myself advocating a confidence build, from within the clans, in many captains so they do not fall into the mob attack ( which does nothing to improve the skill, be as a team be as a individual player ) I also understand that the Open World has a lot of PvP that is not ideal but is part of the tactics and strategy as Vaan de Vries points out.

 

The Duels will be here, for us to test the ships and eventually to test our own skills.

 

What I know is that many captains lack the confidence to engage in combat without the total comfort of numbers and risk little.

 

This cannot be changed by any mechanic.

[Mayhem Like Me]

Despite the overkill situations and myself advocating a confidence build, from within the clans, in many captains so they do not fall into the mob attack ( which does nothing to improve the skill, be as a team be as a individual player ) I also understand that the Open World has a lot of PvP that is not ideal but is part of the tactics and strategy as Vaan de Vries points out.

 

The Duels will be here, for us to test the ships and eventually to test our own skills.

 

What I know is that many captains lack the confidence to engage in combat without the total comfort of numbers and risk little.

 

This cannot be changed by any mechanic.

 

So true!

[fox2run]

Try a mechanic that awards player vs player. Company of Heroes made a good progress from 1 to 2. In the latter you are getting points by fighting - even the lost ones. It could be the same here. Lets say you have a frigate and get intercepted by a 3rd rate and two Constitutions. Theres no way you can win so you flee. But imagine that it gave a lot more points to fight and a lot of minus points to flee. Would you then leave? Hardly. Its all about the points. And also the stupid 2 min timer. We need longer battle timers for bigger battles.

[Mrdoomed]

Not all of us role-play.

Not all of us sign up for sandbox to have 1v1 duels. ..yawn

[Vaan De Vries]

Try a mechanic that awards player vs player. Company of Heroes made a good progress from 1 to 2. In the latter you are getting points by fighting - even the lost ones. It could be the same here. Lets say you have a frigate and get intercepted by a 3rd rate and two Constitutions. Theres no way you can win so you flee. But imagine that it gave a lot more points to fight and a lot of minus points to flee. Would you then leave? Hardly. Its all about the points. And also the stupid 2 min timer. We need longer battle timers for bigger battles.

When ganked by a 3rd rate and 2 Consties you SHOULD ran. Cause in real life you would be faced by the tribunal by just letting your ship be destroyed having no chance to win. 

This is of course if your purpose wasn't to, for example, to delay conquest flag for ex.

 

During last week we were engaging Swedes near Gustavia on PVP1 with a fleet of throw-away 3rd rates, but it wasn't 100% sure-death battles. No more then 2:1 BR rating. Some battles we won, couple battles we lost.

But rewarding player for suicide death run is not a good idea from my point.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Vaan De Vries

[Hyperion74]

I don't like gankers. If you ask me, that tactic is just assy. No honor. That is simply my opinion. When ganked there are only two options. Run, which players complain about, or do what damage you can and then run. Still the only thing the gankee can do is run or be defeated. Enough of that though. The only way the ganking problem can be solved is through the player base.

 

Duel Mode: as long as a fight can be set up how ever the players want it, i.e. 6v6, 8 cutters against a SOL would be fun. I am all for it. I suggested it during sea trials. There should also be a no loss training mode. Frigate against a SOL, which I have done in POTBS. It was quite fun and a challenge. To me a big frigate fur ball sounds like a good thing.

If this would be set up by players in game then there would be no need for a duel mode but the game mechanics, and perhaps the players, make this difficult. The sailing time alone, oyy. "Instant action" would be a time saver.

 

This is from the perspective of a mostly non MMO player. My only MMO was POTBS and that is my only experience. I liked it, gankers and all, until they made the game FTP stupid. I'm really just here for the ships and those ships are stunning!

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hyperion74