Navigational Tools?

[BuccaneerFlint]

I get that naval action wants us to get lost and I must find a way to navigate my current location, but I am a real sailor for about 10 years. I trace on the map were my location might be with a compass, divider caliper, pencil, and other navigation instruments to trace a line of my previous locations. Without navigational instruments you see how hard it is to know were you are? Now, I am not saying that it does it for you because I don't want that, but what I do want is for me to be responsible to know were I am. Taking the same responsibilities as a real sailor should.

[chappy]

yes i think that the map can be vastly improved with interaction of measuring tools for distance, angle and time. 

think Silent hunter and what you could do with clickable tools on their maps

[Namuras]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_reckoning

 

Press a Button - get a fix with increasing inaccuracies depending on the duration of the voyage. 

[SeaMist]

I learnt navigation at sea too and it certainly helps here but I would appreciate more tools to allow dead reckoning to occur. Right now you look at the map ( I hold up a piece of straight paper) estimate the desired heading and go. A proper scale on the map; an accumulative log so you can estimate distance vs heading; perhaps a tool that allows accurate heading calculation; anything like this would be a great assistance to navigation.

What I definitely don't want to see is a ' where you are on the map' indicator.

[mwnciboo]

I think there a couple of ways you could skin this....

 

1. There could be a method to take a "Sight", like Sun-Run-Sun or Moon, observation, with a built in error...So you would get an approximate mark with built in error, and then you could Dead Reckon off that. Add in some Divider method for running off say 6nm, 12nm and 18nm (problem being sail isn't like a PDV for consistent Speed over the ground)

• So you can take a sight at anytime, by selecting "Take a Sight" but only on Clear days or clear nights, not in rain or storms. It displays a position +/- 4nm of your actual position.

 

2. Navigation by "Circle of Error" like a Submarine.

 

 

Things that should be added.... A compass Rose, I had a bit of an argument with someone about this as aspect ratio on your monitor can make navigation difficult.

[Admiral 8Q]

Seriously?
I rarely bother with precise navigating. It's more about visually seeing the map in your head, and using land as checkpoints.
There us no need for numbers or degrees really, in this game on OW. 
But at first I admit I was calculating very precise.   

 

It's actually quite easy to navigate. I took a photo to show. So to set a course for Tolu, I point my ship East on the in-game Compass, and just a bit left of the first notch North.

[Jean LaPointe]

I use the following link as a guide in getting around.

http://burningsail.com/

Great tool and I find myself within a km of my destination most of the time. The time estimation is within a day or so of the eta.

[Ted Nougat]

Navigation is easy enough already I think.  I had been in the game for maybe four days and sailed directly from Port Royal to Concepcion. Literally drove right up to the port.

 

If the wind actually varied and/or there were currents it'd be trickier.  But if you note your direction and speed, you can get anywhere easy enough. Just go as much distance east as you did west, or north as south, and then get back on course.

 

That said, it would be kind of cool to have a "take a sighting" button when on OW which would fix a star, the moon, or the sun, and then consult with one or more of your crappy clocks onboard to give you an ever-widening circle on the map of where you could theoretically be.

 

Actually, you should see an east-west ellipse, more likely, since latitude is fairly easy to determine with some accuracy but longitude requires some sort of timekeeping device, which were generally terrible at the time.

 

Hey, how about a "Ship's Clock" upgrade that would let captains have better timepieces so their east-west positions would be better calculated and those ellipses would be less elongated?

[SeaMist]

I use the following link as a guide in getting around.

http://burningsail.com/

Great tool and I find myself within a km of my destination most of the time. The time estimation is within a day or so of the eta.

Great tool indeed. Thanks for the link. That is just the thing!

[bakters]

Why not simply mark your position on the map?  That's what you do in reality.  (Make the mark bigger or finer depending on "factors" if they must.)  Your "navigator" makes his best guess and you work with what you got.

 

Real navigation from the age of sail was so complex, that you can't expect players to learn it.  It's like expecting them to do a PhD in some area.  You'd need to model the skies too, lots of work nobody wants.  What we have now is neither realistic nor practical.  Kinda the worst of both worlds.  (I'm a sailor for half of my life.)

[Long Beard]

 

I use the following link as a guide in getting around.
http://burningsail.com/
Great tool and I find myself within a km of my destination most of the time. The time estimation is within a day or so of the eta.

 

 

This

Edited April 1, 2016 by Long Beard

[Taralin Snow]

As much as I like the burningsail map, it shouldn't be necessary to use out-of-game tools for something basic like navigation.  And in fact it's not necessary (I've managed to go places without it), although the in-game tools are a bit more primitive than they really need to be.  I assume that improvements will come in time.

 

It would be nice to be able to mark a line on the in-game map (for example from one port to another, but it would be useful to be able to do this with arbitrary lines placed anywhere), and get the angle of that line.  Then you can use your compass to sail in that direction.  This retains a lot of the feel I think the game is trying for.

 

Another tool that would be useful is the ability to put a mark on your compass at your current heading.  This would be useful when tacking.  Suppose you want to go at a heading of 315 but the wind is blowing from that direction.  So you would head 315 (into the wind) then press a key to 'mark' your heading on your compass.  Now you can tack some amount off that mark, then after a while change course to tack by that same amount on the far side of the mark.  Just a little thing to make tacking easier without removing the need to do it completely.

 

And for those players who want a 'you are here' marker on the map, I think that is too much.  But it might be ok if every night at midnight (open sea time) an X appeared on your map with your current location (presumably taken via sextant measurement, etc.) so you won't necessarily have up-to-the-minute information about your location, but you will be able to guess based on your heading and the location of your last 'fix' on the chart.  Also this would be useful to know your progress on a long multi-day trip.  For realism maybe instead of an X on the map every night, only add it in clear weather.  So you might get unlucky with weather and go several days without a location fix.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Taralin Snow

[Hyperion74]

Little late to the party again. I looked at burningsail.com and now I'm hooked. Navigation can be a pain sometimes I must agree. Got lost yesterday 

. What a pisser,

[Ddraig]

Navigation isn't that complex, even using a sextant.  You just have to know what celestial body to take the reading off of, have a decent clock (e.g. the one on OW would work, though it'd be rather inaccurate as it changes in 10minute increments), angle-over-time markings on the map for that celestial body, and have a decent understanding of basic trigonometry.

 

However, I'd settle for a scale tool to convert inches to nautical miles (e.g. a ruler) and a moveable compass on the in-game map (and I assume the Kn number on OW is accurate to OW time and distance)

Edited April 2, 2016 by Ddraig

[Porpoise]

More toys for Porpoise = Porpoise is more happy 

[Babble]

I think it might be neat to have one of the officer slots be an officer that gives you an idea of where you are on the open sea.  Say the Coxswain basic gives you a idea that your somewhere in this 50 miles radius. then 40, 30, 20,10   based on quality of the officer.

[NickAbbottt]

I've not wanted to comment on navigation for a while as i'm sure the devs will implement helpful tools in the future.

However, after seeing so many posts and threads with wildly differing opinions I feel it necessary to say something and hopefully it's useful for the devs.

 

What i'm about to write regarding navigation is not an opinion. I am an authority on ocean going navigation (Not "THE" authority, "AN" authority), having worked as a navigator in the Merchant navy for over 10 years. Now I am sure there are many sailors on here and possibly others who have or do work in the Merchant navy and these would also be authorities.

I've been all over the world, sailed all its oceans and most of its seas. I've been on vessels with paper charts and had to use a sextant "in anger" a few times.

I've also worked with advanced ECDIS systems such as NACOS, where thanks to backup systems for the backups, i've only had to use a sextant for fun.

 

Everyone mentions how "easy" in game navigation currently is, you point your ship in a direction and you'll eventually get to where you want to go.

Well this is very, very basic "navigation". The same way you might navigate a bullet!

Navigation is getting from A to B, knowing where you are along your chosen route (or off your route) and where you've been.

I have never in my life simply pointed a ship in a direction and said "we'll hopefully be there in 10 days... Maybe".

 

Opinion time (with a dash of authority).

A lot of things people have suggested (particularly the officer parts).

The game needs a few simple tools to make things a little easier and a little more realistic, after all, the realism is why I was so interested in this game.

 

- The ability to draw a series of courses on the in game (note "IN GAME") chart.

- This could be as simple as left click to set your waypoints and right click to delete the route.

- The lines between waypoints would have the course written next to them as well as distance.

- Ship speed and time is already in the game, so it should be possible to add a "fix" on your chart. (possibly just a click on the course line)

- Once undocked, the chart automatically notes the time and day your voyage began (Day 1, 0600)

- When you have a moment, look at your speed and the date/time and workout how far you've come. Or if it goes a less manual way, an officer can do this for you with a suitable error. (press F and a note saying "approximately 130 miles over the last 15 hours" pops up)

- Hover the cursor over the course line it it shows the distance from the start waypoint.

- That click on the course line puts down the day and time of the fix (Day 1, 2100)

- You may stop for battle or any new things the devs introduce which might throw off all your hard dead reckoning work. So an ability to take a sight in clear weather would be useful. Mini games are a bad idea here. The use of an officer however isn't. So a midday sight to give you a fix with a suitable error would be handy and realistic. (To the hardcore navigators, I know Marq St. Hillaire method doesn't need a noon fix, but a once a "clear" day fix with an error wouldn't allow an anytime and instant "show my location button").

- With your new position attained, either place a new course on your chart from your position or head back to your original course.

 

Sounds a lot but it's simply a few clicks and lines and would make navigation much more engaging.

 

And for those who love to get lost the associated errors will add in that element of not quite having a GPS.

 

Hope this has been useful.

 

P.S.

 

I don't respond on forums, you never know where the trolls might be (usually under bridges though!)

[bakters]

I've not wanted to comment on navigation for a while as i'm sure the devs will implement helpful tools in the future.

However, after seeing so many posts and threads with wildly differing opinions I feel it necessary to say something and hopefully it's useful for the devs.

 

What i'm about to write regarding navigation is not an opinion. I am an authority on ocean going navigation (Not "THE" authority, "AN" authority), having worked as a navigator in the Merchant navy for over 10 years. Now I am sure there are many sailors on here and possibly others who have or do work in the Merchant navy and these would also be authorities.

I've been all over the world, sailed all its oceans and most of its seas. I've been on vessels with paper charts and had to use a sextant "in anger" a few times.

I've also worked with advanced ECDIS systems such as NACOS, where thanks to backup systems for the backups, i've only had to use a sextant for fun.

 

Everyone mentions how "easy" in game navigation currently is, you point your ship in a direction and you'll eventually get to where you want to go.

Well this is very, very basic "navigation". The same way you might navigate a bullet!

Navigation is getting from A to B, knowing where you are along your chosen route (or off your route) and where you've been.

I have never in my life simply pointed a ship in a direction and said "we'll hopefully be there in 10 days... Maybe".

 

Opinion time (with a dash of authority).

A lot of things people have suggested (particularly the officer parts).

The game needs a few simple tools to make things a little easier and a little more realistic, after all, the realism is why I was so interested in this game.

 

- The ability to draw a series of courses on the in game (note "IN GAME") chart.

- This could be as simple as left click to set your waypoints and right click to delete the route.

- The lines between waypoints would have the course written next to them as well as distance.

- Ship speed and time is already in the game, so it should be possible to add a "fix" on your chart. (possibly just a click on the course line)

- Once undocked, the chart automatically notes the time and day your voyage began (Day 1, 0600)

- When you have a moment, look at your speed and the date/time and workout how far you've come. Or if it goes a less manual way, an officer can do this for you with a suitable error. (press F and a note saying "approximately 130 miles over the last 15 hours" pops up)

- Hover the cursor over the course line it it shows the distance from the start waypoint.

- That click on the course line puts down the day and time of the fix (Day 1, 2100)

- You may stop for battle or any new things the devs introduce which might throw off all your hard dead reckoning work. So an ability to take a sight in clear weather would be useful. Mini games are a bad idea here. The use of an officer however isn't. So a midday sight to give you a fix with a suitable error would be handy and realistic. (To the hardcore navigators, I know Marq St. Hillaire method doesn't need a noon fix, but a once a "clear" day fix with an error wouldn't allow an anytime and instant "show my location button").

- With your new position attained, either place a new course on your chart from your position or head back to your original course.

 

Sounds a lot but it's simply a few clicks and lines and would make navigation much more engaging.

 

And for those who love to get lost the associated errors will add in that element of not quite having a GPS.

 

Hope this has been useful.

 

P.S.

 

I don't respond on forums, you never know where the trolls might be (usually under bridges though!)

That's good stuff.  

 

Basically it boils down to having your position marked on the map, though.  Which is obviously the only sane way of doing it.  All the rest is a nice add-on, more involving gameplay, which I'd welcome, but none of that helps if you don't know where you are in the first place.

 

It may seem "realistic" to make the player guess it all, but my brother is a sailor, and he tried this game.  His reaction after seeing the map with no idea where he actually might be was predictable.  

[Sir Robert Calder]

I have full faith in the developers to include in the future a more interactive way to navigate your current location without flat out giving it to you. I just feel like their priority is solely focused on pumping major content like ships, pvp, etc. and creating depth for the navigational mechanic is on the backburner. It just wouldn't feel like an Age of Sail game with such a basic stab at navigating the map currently.

 

And surely when they do implement navigational depth content, hiring a navigational officer or buying the tools won't be free.

[KittyHawkes]

 

 

However, I'd settle for a scale tool to convert inches to nautical miles (e.g. a ruler) and a moveable compass on the in-game map (and I assume the Kn number on OW is accurate to OW time and distance)

that´s actually what i was missing tbh... i wouldnt need more, just a possibility to (assist with) measure distance... i can already see how fast i move and into which direction, i just need a tool that helps me estimating the distance... and i´d prefere it to be in game...

 

 

 

I have full faith in the developers to include in the future a more interactive way to navigate your current location without flat out giving it to you. I just feel like their priority is solely focused on pumping major content like ships, pvp, etc. and creating depth for the navigational mechanic is on the backburner. It just wouldn't feel like an Age of Sail game with such a basic stab at navigating the map currently.

 

And surely when they do implement navigational depth content, hiring a navigational officer or buying the tools won't be free.

yea well, if they actually plan to implement mechanics like that, i bet my sternchasers they can get alot of nice ideas from silent hunter 3 and the like, even regarding officers i guess ^^

Edited April 7, 2016 by KittyHawkes