Allow ship deliveries between outposts

[Hugo van Grojt]

Hello captains,

 

for a while now, I have been annoyed by the fact that I have to use the "feature" of capturing a trader and sending my warship "to outpost" if I want to move a warship from one of my outposts to another. You could argue that this is not intended use of the "send to outpost" feature and that moving assets around the map SHOULD be a chore. I, personally, disagree because moving assets is just a time sink with very little positive effect on the gameplay experience. I do not enjoy sailing around warships for hours just to store them in another outpost.

 

Since everybody seems to be using the AI trader capture method more or less frequently, lets talk about a more "legal" way to move your ships from one outpost to another.

 

My suggestion would be to

1. allow deliveries of ships between any of your outposts.

2. exclude the cargo hold from the delivery (ship+equipment only, for obvious reasons)

3. make it somewhat costly (between 30.000-50.000 per ship, maybe?)

4. make it time consuming (I could even live with 4+ hours for the ship to reach the destination to avoid mass movement of fleets)

 

Obviously, these would be my preferences but you can freely chose from many other options in the poll.

 

Let the voting begin!

 

Cheers,

 

Hugo

Edited March 31, 2016 by Hugo van Grojt

[maturin]

Why would you propose this as a Dutch player? You want to be zerged by the sprawling empires that now will never become overextended?

[xAzDKr]

Delivery cost should depend on the ship ie 3rates are more expensive to ship than 6th rates because more crew and whatnot is required

[Random]

I would like to see AI actually perform the ordered delivery and sail your ship/deliver cargo in the open world. This way there's an element of risk to it since someone could intercept it and capture your ships/cargo. There has to be a price for the convenience and this element of risk seems like a good price to pay for me personally.

[Hugo van Grojt]

Why would you propose this as a Dutch player? You want to be zerged by the sprawling empires that now will never become overextended?

 

Care to elaborate? What is the difference? Right now, anyone can take a basic cutter, make an outpost in a freetown near the enemy and teleport back at zero risk. Following that, he just needs to capture an AI trader in his hometown to move his warship to that outpost. The only difference between a proper system for ship deliveries and this method is the time investment - boring hours  spent not really enjoying the game.

 

But needless to say, I welcome any feedback that may cause massive balancing issues. So please be a little more specific, Maturin.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[surfimp]

I would like to see AI actually perform the ordered delivery and sail your ship/deliver cargo in the open world. This way there's an element of risk to it since someone could intercept it and capture your ships/cargo. There has to be a price for the convenience and this element of risk seems like a good price to pay for me personally.

+1

[Hugo van Grojt]

I would like to see AI actually perform the ordered delivery and sail your ship/deliver cargo in the open world. This way there's an element of risk to it since someone could intercept it and capture your ships/cargo. There has to be a price for the convenience and this element of risk seems like a good price to pay for me personally.

 

I agree for trade vessels and resource deliveries, but not necessarily for crafted warships.

[Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän]

Thrown in my vote.

I do however have to question why so many says yes to cargo? This will decrease the risk of moving valuable cargo, which in my eyes should be risky.

 

Just my thought on the subject really.

[surfimp]

Expanding on my appreciation for this idea:

 

1) I would allow any kind of ship, including cargo & upgrades, to be delivered to any port the player him/herself would be able to enter (outpost, free port, national port)

 

2) I would have the ship transit through the OW with an NPC crew. The player could escort his/her NPC -crewed delivery through the OW if he/she wanted.

 

3)  Since the ship traveling the OW exposes it to risk, I would not charge anything for delivery. I think of this more as an "autopilot", using the crew the ship already has, as opposed to a delivery crew hired just for the purpose.

 

4)  I would allow the player to supply their own NPC -commanded warships to escort the trader.

 

5) Also, I would allow the player to create convoys of multiple trade vessels all journeying together (including warship escorts, if the player chose to supply them).

 

6) I would reduce and possibly eliminate the "teleport to outpost" cooldown for player character teleport between owned outposts. Otherwise I would not change that mechanic at all.

 

In my view, the above changes would allow those players mainly interested in creating a "trade empire" to play Naval Action in almost an RTS fashion. They could easily teleport to their owned outposts, setup their trade ships to deliver, via NPC autopilot, trade goods created or purchased in the outpost to any port they might like. They could then teleport to another outpost and repeat the process. They might then teleport to one of the outposts intended to receive the trade ship, and personally sail out in a warship to escort the NPC autopiloted trade ship into port. Or pay other player characters in their faction to do so.

 

In addition to fleshing out a whole new play style of "trade mogul", the presence of all these trade ships in the Open World would give other players a meaningful RVR reason behind intercepting NPC traders. Not only would they potentially capture the ships and cargos of the trade mogul, they would potentially impact the production of ships in the trade mogul's faction... leading to a meaningful form of "trade war" which would tremendously improve the gameplay experience of those for whom the Port Battle meta of the current game mechanics holds no appeal (and/or for which they have not sufficiently ranked up to justify their participation in).

 

Privateering and pirating - as well as fighting against same - would actually matter in a way that they only barely do now, and small nations would have a new means of capturing the resources and wealth of large nations, allowing them to "fight back" from just a few owned ports.

 

The net result would be, in my view, much greater PVP between players, as well as a true PVP implication to PVE activities (i.e. capturing a player-owned NPC-crewed vessel in the OW). To whit, quite a bit more "action" in Naval Action.

Edited March 30, 2016 by surfimp

[LethaK Maas]

I would like to add "ship deliveries" as a suggestion for implementation

[Hugo van Grojt]

Actually, asking the "cargo-question" is my little carebear test ...

[akd]

I would like to see AI actually perform the ordered delivery and sail your ship/deliver cargo in the open world. This way there's an element of risk to it since someone could intercept it and capture your ships/cargo. There has to be a price for the convenience and this element of risk seems like a good price to pay for me personally.

 

The problem is that the risk will be near 100% chance of loss in some areas and near 0% in others, with not a lot in between.  Perhaps rather than complete loss, there could be an interception tax: time penalty for ship arrival and percentage of cargo removed.

 

There should be some sort of restriction so that it is used to eliminate long hauls by players, but does not strip the seas of all player traffic, but I'm not sure free ports only is the right one.

[surfimp]

The problem is that the risk will be near 100% chance of loss in some areas and near 0% in others, with not a lot in between.

 

I respect your opinion but I disagree; if a faction's access to vital shipbuilding resources were truly threatened in a future OW state where ship & cargo teleporting was gone, and everything had to move through the OW, then there would be real and extremely good motivations to protect trade ships as they performed this essential task.

 

That would draw player escorts and player hunters together, with a strong competitive goal at hand. It would create the opportunity, currently missing, for a whole new gameplay style.

 

I mean, right now, we have players spending literally hundreds of hours grinding NPC fleets so they can level up to command 3rd and 1st rates in port battles. But the ports themselves, as it stands right now, are almost worthless and these forums are filled with plenty of confirmation of same.

 

Surely escorting the trade ships of one's faction, and/or hunting the trade ships of another faction, and finding plenty of PVP fights with something truly meaningful to fight over in the process, would be at least as much fun as grinding NPC fleets, per current practice? It would give something much more meaningful for low and mid rank captains to do, at the very least.

 

EDIT: additions for clarity.

Edited March 30, 2016 by surfimp

[Macjimm]

All deliveries should involve NPC sailing in OW. Vulnerable to attack. No cost but high risk depending on the route.

[Toothless Jack]

Good idea on ship delivery between free towns.

At the moment everybody using gap or trick (call what ever you like ) capturing NPC ship and sending your main ship to outpost.

So i say lets make it legal

[Fastidius]

The question is broken...if the answer to part 1 is no then the rest is still being voted on as what? worst case scenario?

 

My view, all deliveries should be done by hand but you can hire a fleet of traders.......you should be gankable, this is PVP not farmville

[Fletch]

A ridiculous poll.

If you answer no to the first question there are no further options and thus cannot complete the dam thing.

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

Good idea. IMHO replace the deliveries system with this... You can hire a crew to sail your ship from and to any port, but the ship will actually sail and be manned by AI and can be intercepted by AI/players as any other ship. You pay for distance, crew and cargo weight and heck, even have the possibility of chartering an AI ship for it if you are only moving cargo.

 

Make the time based on actually sailing there... and even maybe hire fleet protection for the convoy, at a significant premium.

 

This would add some much needed "AI" fleets with actual value to them... and it would add a HUGE risk to moving ships and cargo across the map unattended. You could even follow your own hired fleet to protect it if needs be.

[Precious Roy]

I voted for porting to outpost the same as port to capital, but I also favor the current long cool down for it. planning and ow sailing would still be required but you could get the occasional shortcut, could save it for pb if you want to be a good dude.

[Quineloe]

I'd love to see the "send to outpost" only let you choose the nearest outpost. 

 

I've watched the French the last few days and I see pavels, bellonas etc enter battles against traders, then the trader comes out of that battle. They're building their war fleet in Fort Royal, and then teleport it west. 

 

I doubt a single Santissima, Victory or Pavel was ever sailed that way. 

[Hugo van Grojt]

The question is broken...if the answer to part 1 is no then the rest is still being voted on as what? worst case scenario?

 

My view, all deliveries should be done by hand but you can hire a fleet of traders.......you should be gankable, this is PVP not farmville

 

You are correct - fixed in the poll. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Hugo van Grojt]

I'd love to see the "send to outpost" only let you choose the nearest outpost. 

 

I've watched the French the last few days and I see pavels, bellonas etc enter battles against traders, then the trader comes out of that battle. They're building their war fleet in Fort Royal, and then teleport it west. 

 

I doubt a single Santissima, Victory or Pavel was ever sailed that way. 

 

Exactly, everybody is using that workaround - so we might as well have a proper system in place, but with restrictions.

However, I am also amazed at the amount of votes for moving ships with cargo - that would actually be gamebreaking in my eyes

[Random]

Exactly, everybody is using that workaround - so we might as well have a proper system in place, but with restrictions.

However, I am also amazed at the amount of votes for moving ships with cargo - that would actually be gamebreaking in my eyes

Well, if AI is sailing the ship with cargo in the open world, the sender of the ship is accepting the risk of it being intercepted. I don't see how that would be game breaking. If I buy some parts in one outpost and want to send them to my shipyard, I can either sail them myself and make sure that they get there safely, or be lazy and risk losing them to piracy/enemy raiders who will now stand to gain a whole lot more when they prey on trade ships. Provided that current "magic" delivery system is eliminated, transferring cargo via AI open world ships can create a new and interesting mechanic of trade fleets (with hired protection convoy) and real piracy/meaningful raiding opportunities that could disrupt national economies. If anything, this is much better than allowing teleports to capital with trade ships full of cargo - that should be eliminated and replaced with the new delivery system.

[surfimp]

Exactly, everybody is using that workaround - so we might as well have a proper system in place, but with restrictions.

However, I am also amazed at the amount of votes for moving ships with cargo - that would actually be gamebreaking in my eyes

 

To be clear - I only support moving ships with cargo if they actually traverse the open world.

 

IMHO the current "teleport to outpost" mechanic must be gotten rid of before this game can truly become what it should be.

 

However, I recognize that people do not want to spend huge amounts of time "just sailing" in the OW, so the compromise solution is some kind of autopilot feature, to have ships move through the OW without player interaction.

[Marcomies]

Personally i think all teleportation of ships should be minimized as much as possible and sending captured ships to ports (or using capturing ships as a tool to teleport your own ship to a port) should be removed. The teleportation to capital in a ship is already making commercial raiding and piracy at trade routes much rarer than it should be.

 

Instead I'd like a system where you can set a captured or owned ship under AI control and have it follow you as you escort it to a port.