Make reinforcement removal permanent

[surfimp]

With the removal of reinforcements in hotfix 9.67, I'm finding more PVP than ever before.

Player traders are more vulnerable than before, encouraging players sailing warships to actively defend them as well as patrol their trade routes. These facts actively encourage more and better PVP and less focus on grinding NPCs.

I would like to suggest the best solution is to make the removal of reinforcements permanent. This closes the exploit around the use of reinforcements, encourages more and better PVP, and puts a greater emphasis on the RVR aspects of trading and economic production, giving more interesting things for more players to do beyond the Port Battle focus.

Please make the removal of reinforcements permanent.

Poll removed by mod team for being non-essential to the discussion.

[Blood Eagle]

How about no, certainly not until they fix faction imbalance to keep the zerg nations from camping a small nations 1 and only port. You may not see how awful this is for the game because you likely play on a zerg faction, but if you ever played a faction like Spain on PVP2 where you had more ships camping Havana then you had total spainish players in all, you would know how suck this idea is.

[surfimp]

I play for Spain on PVP1, FWIW.

 

And I do my privateering deep in the waters of USA and Great Britain... alone

Edited March 24, 2016 by surfimp

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

Totally agree, no need for reinforcements except maybe around the capital for new players to get bearings before they get a beating.

[Lord Roberts]

Totally agree, no need for reinforcements except maybe around the capital for new players to get bearings before they get a beating.

This!

[Dius]

IMO - Should have kept it, at least until they could of added alternatives...

 

The problem is the community is asking for content... This particular mechanic, like it or not, was very much enjoyable to EVERYONE who participates. 

 

It was by no means easy to coordinate 10-15 players all different ranks / ship types in the first place, add 10-15 angry AI 3rd Rates & it was actually pretty difficult.

We lost ships...

 

The point being, this is not sail up to a stationary target and pound away. This is fighting the largest AI fleets that can be found in-game atm. 

 

Not for XP... I'm Rear Admiral.

Not for gold... I have enough gold through econ and ship building.

But because I want LARGE SCALE BATTLES with all my friends... 

 

It is a FANTASTIC training mechanic. 

 

If there were AI fleets on the OS that consisted of 15+ 3rd Rates. Maybe even un-capturable 2nd & 1st Rates =)

I would say of course remove it... 

 

Give us some EPIC fleets to hit... Just should not have removed it until an alternative PvE option was found and implemented.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Dius

[Captain Red]

With the removal of reinforcements in hotfix 9.67, I'm finding more PVP than ever before.

 

Player traders are more vulnerable than before, encouraging players sailing warships to actively defend them as well as patrol their trade routes.

 

I have never seen players patrol trade routes with warships. Warships you see around are either fleet/port sitting, or moved to other ports but certainly not tooling around traders ships looking for some pvp to occur. Privateers/pirates in fast ships looking for traders are not interested in pvp with heavier ships carrying guns

So still no pvp.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Captain Red

[Cragger]

I have never seen players patrol trade routes with warships. Warships you see around are either fleet/port sitting, or moved to other ports but certainly not tooling around traders ships looking for some pvp to occur. Privateers/pirates in fast ships looking for traders are not interested in pvp with heavier ships carrying guns

So still no pvp.

 

Simple, why burn hours on hours doing something for no return when everyone you meet will run despite if they are more powerful.

 

In real life crews where still paid for doing their duty even if a cruise was uneventful. In game, repairs are on you and no reward for patrolling.

[Lord Roberts]

 

IMO - Should have kept it, at least until they could of added alternatives...

 

The problem is the community is asking for content... This particular mechanic, like it or not, was very much enjoyable to EVERYONE who participates. 

 

It was by no means easy to coordinate 10-15 players all different ranks / ship types in the first place, add 10-15 angry AI 3rd Rates & it was actually pretty difficult.

We lost ships...

 

The point being, this is not sail up to a stationary target and pound away. This is fighting the largest AI fleets that can be found in-game atm. 

 

Not for XP... I'm Rear Admiral.

Not for gold... I have enough gold through econ and ship building.

But because I want LARGE SCALE BATTLES with all my friends... 

 

It is a FANTASTIC training mechanic. 

 

If there were AI fleets on the OS that consisted of 15+ 3rd Rates. Maybe even un-capturable 2nd & 1st Rates =)

I would say of course remove it... 

 

Give us some EPIC fleets to hit... Just should not have removed it until an alternative PvE option was found and implemented.

 

 

I would love to see epic +15 3rd rate fleets or even victory pavel fleets you can not capture.

[charognard666]

Have you ever thinking about a new kind of reinforcement ? Why not make it opening the battle for something like 2-3 minutes ? By this way, let NpC or Players arround join and help a comrade. If nobody is near, just make you fight, live is hard and you can't alway expect somebody will help you

[surfimp]

I have never seen players patrol trade routes with warships. Warships you see around are either fleet/port sitting, or moved to other ports but certainly not tooling around traders ships looking for some pvp to occur. Privateers/pirates in fast ships looking for traders are not interested in pvp with heavier ships carrying guns

So still no pvp.

 

As more and more player traders get captured by privateers, you're going to see this change. It's a great thing for the game.

[Jomppeli]

+1 vote for removing reinforcements permanently. 

[Cragger]

As more and more player traders get captured by privateers, you're going to see this change. It's a great thing for the game.

 

Hardly, no incentive.

 

Patrolling your waters chasing off raiders you can never force and engagement with due to the mechanics of the game for hours and getting nothing out of it isn't going to make people do it anymore now then has been before. Not their trade ships being lost anyways.

[Ruthless4u]

Hardly, no incentive.

 

Patrolling your waters chasing off raiders you can never force and engagement with due to the mechanics of the game for hours and getting nothing out of it isn't going to make people do it anymore now then has been before. Not their trade ships being lost anyways.

I agree, seen several players begging for help today when being attacked in their trade ships by pirates.( near Sunbury) No one came to help even those close enough. I was stuck down by key west so was to far out of position.

[Vaan De Vries]

Love the change!

 

Actually I don't care so much about PVE carebears traders or mission runners being ganked. Also don't care much about gankers themselves too.

 

But screening battles around PBs finally became more interesting! Now players actually attack each other and wait for other players to help, not click insta AI respawn button.

 

So for RVR this change really feels like a fresh air!

[CptEdwardKenway]

I say no. Why? Because now you see a group of players ganking lonely poor devils all the time. Is this pvp? No. Pvp would be a fight with equal forces but most decide not to fight equal fleets even during fights the start to run away. Hell even in front of capitals they are ganking at the moment.

At the moment it's a paradise for ganking/trolling. But anything but fun. You can't make missions at the moment without getting ganked. No matter where. There should be a protection for players. If you want pvp just ask the players of the other nation and you can meet them near a free port or at the sea but there are lot of players who don't want it 24/7.

And I even don't see a problem with reinforcement grinding. We attacked a player once too and he called them and tried to escape. Guess what we did? We fought the AI fleet and the player escaped. The AI was made to help and to fight so I don't know where was the problem to pick up this fight? It didn't happen on daily base but when there was the opportunity we took it. For xp, gold and for training.

[Ledinis]

How about make it a win win situation and make reinforcements be actual players ? Say you get attacked while on a mission or near your port, you can ask for reinforcements, and all close by players get a pop up with the opportunity to join that battle to help you out. Would encourage more pvp than seal clubbing and farming brain dead AI + make it safer for people to do mission near their most populated areas.

[KrakkenSmacken]

How about make it a win win situation and make reinforcements be actual players ? Say you get attacked while on a mission or near your port, you can ask for reinforcements, and all close by players get a pop up with the opportunity to join that battle to help you out. Would encourage more pvp than seal clubbing and farming brain dead AI + make it safer for people to do mission near their most populated areas.

Provided they were in an acceptable radius that they could reach the fight, this sounds like a good idea.

 

Also, they could possibly still require you to sail to the location, but hold open the battle to allow you to join long after the 2 min current countdown.

 

Part of the reason the instances close so fast is invisibility jumping and friendly grief/capture behavior.  If you had a dialog on who you were letting in however, that could solve some of it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Leavon]

The notion that you can get players to escort trade boats is frankly absurd without some kind of navigation mechanic. Constantly making adjustments for several different boats without speed matching or a follow/formation auto setting is wishful thinking. This game only fosters grouping in earnest for PB's, put reinforcements back in, with the Exp farming scrutiny that was placed in the game will prevent people form exploiting it and players need to be able to run solo with at least some safeguards. To not put this back in is simply catering to the gank mentality that some have demonstrated on this thread.

[Ledinis]

Provided they were in an acceptable radius that they could reach the fight, this sounds like a good idea.

 

Also, they could possibly still require you to sail to the location, but hold open the battle to allow you to join long after the 2 min current countdown.

 

Part of the reason the instances close so fast is invisibility jumping and friendly grief/capture behavior.  If you had a dialog on who you were letting in however, that could solve some of it.

Each city already has reinforcements radius i believe, so they could make it so that players that are in the same cities reinforcements radius would be able to join. But yeah we need as little AI and as much player on player interaction in this game imo

[surfimp]

The notion that you can get players to escort trade boats is frankly absurd without some kind of navigation mechanic.

 

And yet I'm seeing it happen, frequently, since reinforcements have been removed. PVP1

 

I'm getting much more, and much better, PVP since this change, and I'm seeing a type of teamwork between traders & escorts that was absent before. I am convinced it's been a huge boon for the game and I have redoubled the strength of my opinion that this change be made permanent.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The quality of the PvP has increased.

 

There is a genuine consideration for your nation buddies and people organizing hunting parties and securing areas and helping each other out.

 

Before it was dimissed as - "why didn't you call reinforcements !???"

[Cragger]

The quality of the PvP has increased.

 

There is a genuine consideration for your nation buddies and people organizing hunting parties and securing areas and helping each other out.

 

Before it was dimissed as - "why didn't you call reinforcements !???"

 

It really depends on your location and server and what you are doing. Some places it has other places it has become gank or be gank purely.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

It really depends on your location and server and what you are doing. Some places it has other places it has become gank or be gank purely.

 

PvP1

 

was Dutch nation, as i love everything up to 4th rate I focus on OW combat, screen fleet, organizing chase flotillas, you know, all the Naval Action I could take.

 

Not even bothering with crafting, economy and all of that. I only use the system to give away carriages to friends.

 

now playing self imposed "hardcore" freebooter mode.

 

Always had bases inside enemy nations to hit their "sheep pens".

 

Am I not wrong regarding reinforcements.

[Leavon]

And yet I'm seeing it happen, frequently, since reinforcements have been removed. PVP1

 

I'm getting much more, and much better, PVP since this change, and I'm seeing a type of teamwork between traders & escorts that was absent before. I am convinced it's been a huge boon for the game and I have redoubled the strength of my opinion that this change be made permanent.

 

 

And yet I'm not seeing it happen, saying something doesn't make it fact it simply makes it an opinion. This isn't happening wide scale, it may be happening within certain Clans but escorting trade ships isn't happening. What is happening is people are using smaller fore and aft rigged ships as a means of evading interception rather than square rigged ships. This fantasy of forcing a behavior doesn't work it simply makes people more resistant to it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Leavon