In-game compass needs 32 points, not 24.

[Vicker3000]

The in-game compass rose currently has tick marks every 15 degrees, which means that the full circle is divided into 24 pieces.  With the current in-game compass, there are two tick marks between North and Northeast, dividing this space up into thirds.

 

A traditional compass rose is divided into 32 points.  Each point has a specific name.  Halfway between North and East is Northeast.  Halfway between North and Northeast is North by East.  The traditional 32-point compass is a cornerstone of age-of-sail lore.  It appears everywhere, including books, paintings, carvings, tattoos, and everywhere else imaginable.

 

To connect this back to the in-game compass, there needs to be either one or three tick marks between North and Northeast.  The current in-game compass has two tick marks between North and Northeast.

 

The current in-game compass makes it very difficult to use traditional terminology when interacting with other players.  This seemingly minor thing has a massive impact on immersion.

 

Changing the in-game compass seems like it should be an incredibly easy thing to change.  It's just a single image file.  Making this change would be a small investment, and would be quite a substantial positive impact on immersion.

[William Livingston Alden]

but then, all the pirates can't sail here on pvp1, because it is to complicated

[vonKrimm]

but then, all the pirates can't sail here on pvp1, because it is to complicated

 

considering that we Pirates took all the (formerly US) ports on Bermuda this week on PvP1, I venture that your assertion is flawed with respect to our navigation capabilities.

Edited May 22, 2016 by vonKrimm

[Niels Terkildsen]

Couldn't agree more.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Niels Terkildsen

[Dick Brave]

Agree. This and an overlay compass for the map including the compass lines. Our counterparts 200 years ago have had maps, rulers, angulometers, dividers and pencils to determine their course. And they have had a sextant and a chronometer to determine their position (and they were quite accurate).

We have just a map where we can guess a course and a inappropriate compass.

[Thonys]

considering that we Pirates took all the (formerly US) ports on Bermuda this week on PvP1, I venture that your assertion is flawed with respect to our navigation capabilities.

 

well even nowadays captains, can not read or listen ,so nothing new..... even today

 haha if you turn right they turn left,or sail in the opposite direction

 

of cause.... that is  seen in other clans  thats why we practice... 

 

but OT 

we surternly could use a nicer navigation tool /  compass needle 

 

navigation was for sure a huge undertaking in the sailing era

and a lot of people had a job in it (map making /  expeditions) exc.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Thonys

[BusterGut]

The in-game compass rose currently has tick marks every 15 degrees, which means that the full circle is divided into 24 pieces.  With the current in-game compass, there are two tick marks between North and Northeast, dividing this space up into thirds.

 

A traditional compass rose is divided into 32 points.  Each point has a specific name.  Halfway between North and East is Northeast.  Halfway between North and Northeast is North by East.  The traditional 32-point compass is a cornerstone of age-of-sail lore.  It appears everywhere, including books, paintings, carvings, tattoos, and everywhere else imaginable.

 

To connect this back to the in-game compass, there needs to be either one or three tick marks between North and Northeast.  The current in-game compass has two tick marks between North and Northeast.

 

The current in-game compass makes it very difficult to use traditional terminology when interacting with other players.  This seemingly minor thing has a massive impact on immersion.

 

Changing the in-game compass seems like it should be an incredibly easy thing to change.  It's just a single image file.  Making this change would be a small investment, and would be quite a substantial positive impact on immersion.

The 32-point rose has the uncomfortable number of 11¹⁄₄° between points, but is easily found by halving divisions and may have been easier for those not using a 360° circle. Using gradians of which there are 400 in a circle,the sixteen-point rose will have twenty-five gradians per point.

[ObiQuiet]

nvm...

Edited May 22, 2016 by ObiQuiet

[Niels Terkildsen]

I'm just bumping this since it's annoying me every time I play in a group. Can we please get a 32-point compass instead of the 24-point one? Also, in the battles as well, why can't we simply have the cardinal directions instead of the degrees?

When I communicate with my group I use proper terms when possible. When spotting an enemy I report in the direction of e.g. "starboard bow", "starboard quarter", "larboard beam", "astern" etc. (if I wanted to use the point system here, e.g "1 point on the starboard bow", it'd be based on the 32-point system as well).

When I give a course I use the 32-point compass directions, e.g. "North-by-East", "South-South-West", etc. but people tend to look at the points that are present on the current 24-point compass (and thus we end up on different headings). even though those in between N, E, S, and W don't have any proper terms, only if you use degrees and that's silly when we're already using the cardinal directions (and it's anachronistic).

 

The current in-game compass uses a 15 degree system, and as you can see on the compass rose below, that is incompatible with the traditional points:

Edited June 23, 2017 by Niels Terkildsen
Made a new compass rose with more information - improved it further.

[Koltes]

+1

[AngryPanCake]

18 hours ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

I'm just bumping this since it's annoying me every time I play in a group. Can we please get a 32-point compass instead of the 24-point one? Also, in the battles as well, why can't we simply have the cardinal directions instead of the degrees?

Or both, why not.

The picture you attached has suddenly made my reading of Aubrey-Maturin books a hell lot easier. Thank you.

[Elbizor]

agreed

[ObiQuiet]

On 3/17/2016 at 9:17 PM, Vicker3000 said:

To connect this back to the in-game compass, there needs to be either one or three tick marks between North and Northeast.  The current in-game compass has two tick marks between North and Northeast.

The current in-game compass makes it very difficult to use traditional terminology when interacting with other players.  This seemingly minor thing has a massive impact on immersion.

While I am a traditionalist, there is a compromise that could work.

To call out headings for the in-between tickmarks, first name the nearest labeled mark:  "South",  "Northwest", etc.

Then, name the direction in which the heading lies from there:  "by Southwest", "by North", etc.

So, the two unlabled tickmarks between N and NE would be called, in clockwise order:  "North by Nor' East" and "Northeast by North".

Between SW and W, they would be "Southwest by West" and "West by Southwest":

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by ObiQuiet

[Niels Terkildsen]

34 minutes ago, ObiQuiet said:

While I am a traditionalist, there is a compromise that could work.

To call out headings for the in-between tickmarks, first name the nearest labeled mark:  "South",  "Northwest", etc.

Then, name the direction in which the heading lies from there:  "by Southwest", "by North", etc.

So, the two unlabled tickmarks between N and NE would be called, in clockwise order:  "North by Nor' East" and "Northeast by North".

Between SW and W, they would be "Southwest by West" and "West by Southwest":

 

Except that will only cause more confusion. You can't use the traditional terms wrong; there's already a SWbW, so if you give that heading, someone following the real 32-point system would be on another heading from the ones following your proposal.

 

[ObiQuiet]

6 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

Except that will only cause more confusion. You can't use the traditional terms wrong; there's already a SWbW, so if you give that heading, someone following the real 32-point system would be on another heading from the ones following your proposal.

If (# of players who don't know the traditional terms) > (the # of players who can box the compass), then there's less confusion overall.  

The suggestion is based on that premise plus the constraint that the in-game compass won't change.   If either of those is not true, then the suggestion is bad.

I grant that it is offensive to traditionalists like you and me.

[Captiva]

I'm all for the 32 point compass. I'd also like to have the ability to take a noon position; similar to that in the excellent TDA map....ok, back to the compass.

[Niels Terkildsen]

At least this is a plea to give us the proper 32-point compass when the UI gets overhauled.

On 24/6/2017 at 5:36 PM, Captiva said:

I'm all for the 32 point compass. I'd also like to have the ability to take a noon position; similar to that in the excellent TDA map....ok, back to the compass.

Sure. Noon position, but only at noon. 

[van Veen]

+1

[Pad Seayew]

+1

[Macjimm]

EDIT:  If I could make a change it would be to add a toggled compass that allows me to measure the direction to objects ...rather than a only a compass fixed to the direction of the keel.

 

When I first started sailing with the 24 point compass I thought it was a little strange.  But I have become accustomed to its use now.  I have grown to like it.  It may be old fashioned but it works well now that I understand and remember the points.  Each point is 15 degrees.  Descriptions between points are simple.

Vitruvius or Vitruvi or Vitruvio  This compass could have been invented by Marcus Vitruvius Pollio (born c. 80–70 BC, died after c. 15 BC),  He was a Roman author, architect, civil engineer and military engineer during the 1st century BC.   His 24 point rose was not widely adopted (as evidenced by the widespread use of the traditional compass) but it is handily drawn with the convenient 15 degree divisions.  Later in the 16th century Vitruvius's 24 points (and names) were expressed again.  

 

I do not use the  wind names (Latin).  The notation is very simple - panning North (N)  to East (E) yields    N,  NbE,  NNE,  NE,  ENE,  EbN, and E.   Other quadrants follow the pattern.  For more accuracy one can designate a subdivision between the points by using a hyphen.  Example:  halfway between North by East (NbE) and North North East (NNE) would be an abbreviated point of NbE-NNE.

Vitruvius wind names

The Chinese also used a 24 point compass for astronomy and astrology, although it has absolutely nothing to do with the age of sail in the Caribbean. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Macjimm
Added wish.

[Prater]

The game data goes off speed for points of sail for every 15 degrees, so having a 32 point compass wouldn't match with what is in game.  Also, our compass is pretty small.  If we could hit a key to bring up a larger compass, it would probably be beneficial, but we would still need the ability to look at a 24 point compass for speed reasons.

[Macjimm]

On 6/24/2017 at 7:23 AM, ObiQuiet said:

To call out headings for the in-between tickmarks, first name the nearest labeled mark:  "South",  "Northwest", etc. Then, name the direction in which the heading lies from there:  "by Southwest", "by North", etc.  So, the two unlabled tickmarks between N and NE would be called, in clockwise order:  "North by Nor' East" and "Northeast by North". Between SW and W, they would be "Southwest by West" and "West by Southwest":

 

The points you have shown are named West South West (WSW) and West by South (WbS) respectively.

I think that this creating new names for points will cause confusion.    If we are using a 24 point compass I suggest that we use the nomenclature intended for the 24 points.  Keep it simple.

Vitruvius points:

 

Tradition:   Although there are many similarities between the age of sail and the Caribbean there are also many differences.  I've reconciled the 24 point compass by accepting that the map and naval action environment is a unique creation for it's own sake.  Loosely created after history and current geography.  But it is a fantasy virtual world.   The 24 point compass is part of that world,  even though may not have been used in the 17th  century age of sail.

 

[ObiQuiet]

On 8/15/2017 at 4:29 PM, Macjimm said:

I think that this creating new names for points will cause confusion.    If we are using a 24 point compass I suggest that we use the nomenclature intended for the 24 points.  Keep it simple.

That's good.  I didn't know there was a naming system for the 24 point compass, and I didn't think to look for one either...

Edited August 26, 2017 by ObiQuiet

[Koltes]

On 8/16/2017 at 9:29 AM, Macjimm said:

 

The points you have shown are named West South West (WSW) and West by South (WbS) respectively.

 

 

The first should read SWbW. WSW or WbSW is removed from this compass because we have 24 points not 32, so there is no point on the compass that corresponds with WSW (WbSW).
Second is good 

In NA we use "by" to show offset direction. Because there is only 24 points there is no need to refer to it as SW - just S. Which means General Direction W off set one notch towards S, which is said as WbS.

Edited August 27, 2017 by koltes

[Macjimm]

Thanks Koltes,

I like the way you explain details.  You make yourself easily understood.  And it is reasonable to consider using a notation with a ordinal direction preceding, when the direction is closer to it than the cardinal.  

Perhaps we should continue using the traditional winds rather than reconstructing the names.   Vitruvius's latin names may be too detailed to remember easily,  but the modern notation fits well.  it is my understanding that the principle wind is used first.  It indicates the cardinal as primary because cardinal supersedes ordinal.   We might imagine that South is more powerful than SW and owns all of the points between SW and SE.  The general (or primary direction) within the quadrant is southerly.  Your suggestion of SWbW might fit  more appropriately with the compass rose with more points.

On 5/8/2017 at 4:33 PM, UnicornBuster said:

Thanks, I will change that ^^

EDIT :

My tool is not meant to be specially historical. The graphic speaks volumes.
But I am not against adding some historical elements. (Maybe even changes in graphics little by little)

I have simplified my code and I can now inject the points via a table.
I found this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_24-wind_rose.svg

Here is the table of names :

angleTab[0] = ["Septentrio", "N"];
angleTab[1] = ["Gallicus", "NbE"];
angleTab[2] = ["Supernas", "NNE"];
angleTab[3] = ["Aquilo", "NE"];
angleTab[4] = ["Boreas", "ENE"];
angleTab[5] = ["Carbas", "EbN"];
angleTab[6] = ["Solanus", "E"];
angleTab[7] = ["Ornithiae", "EbS"];
angleTab[8] = ["Eurocircias", "ESE"];
angleTab[9] = ["Eurus", "SE"];
angleTab[10] = ["Vulturnus", "SSE"];
angleTab[11] = ["Leuconotus", "SbE"];
angleTab[12] = ["Auster", "S"];
angleTab[13] = ["Altanus", "SbW"];
angleTab[14] = ["Libonotus", "SSW"];
angleTab[15] = ["Africus", "SW"];
angleTab[16] = ["Subversperus", "WSW"];
angleTab[17] = ["Argestes", "WbS"];
angleTab[18] = ["Favonius", "W"];
angleTab[19] = ["Estesiae", "WbN"];
angleTab[20] = ["Circius", "WNW"];
angleTab[21] = ["Caurus", "NW"];
angleTab[22] = ["Corus", "NNW"];
angleTab[23] = ["Thrascias", "NbW"];