Spain is dead ? (PVP1)

[Justme]

I am a Spanish player and i think its safe to say everyone injects national pride into the game. Its not necessarily detrimental, but some use it more than others.

It is detrimental when they seek special treatment over other players.

[Potemkin]

Are you referring to Pepe? Im assuming so because no one ive talked or seen in spain chat is counting on any dev support. Its a myth that started on the forum when the devs made the reinforcements from the south thing. Wake up and smell what your shoveling. If you"re not talking about that then please tell me what kind of special treatment the current spanish player base is expecting or seems to be expecting.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Potemkin

[Jager]

Tbh the whole Brit - Spain diplomacy needs to just start from scratch again, Forget all this Bullshit, forget all what happened in the past, learn from it yes but forget it as The past is the past and it cannot be changed. Move on, Play on, Game on after all this is just a game so bloody relax and enjoy it as some people take shit way to far. Also let me please remind you this is the internet as well and people on forums and in games can and will be troll's so ignore some of the British posters like we ignore some of the spanish ones as they are just trolling.

 

Now i would suggest first and foremost what i understand spain is already in the process of doing, forming a council that includes all the clans in it and getting on the same page. In regards to diplo once this is done come talk to our council and lets make peace as both nations need it. 

 

Britain does not want to see spain die but see spain grow and prosper, how and when this happens is up to the spanish player base. From talking in global, your in dire need of coal and possibly other resources, this war has not been kind to you but while its going on, it will get worse, all i say is wake up as a nation and come talk peace. Wake up and forget the past and talk peace as no matter what its hurting spain more than its hurting us brits even with multiple wars on different fronts going on.

 

Jager

Edited March 15, 2016 by Jager

[Potemkin]

Amen to that, cheers m8

[Gaizka]

Might want to remind the Spanish players it's a game, they seem to be the one injecting national pride into it.

 

I wouldnt say it is a matter of "national pride". In fact, I dont think there is such feeling in Spain (The RL Spain I mean)  I think it is more a matter of "the spanish way of underestanding life". You can call it spanish character if you like.

 

 

The more desperate the situation is, the more we enjoy fighting it.

The less cities we have, the less we have to worry about.

 

Now we have been beaten up we can unite and be happy fighting together against someone else instead of fighting each other 

 

If the british thought that taking our ports would make us surrunder...I dont think thats going to work.

I know that the plan was to secure your back so you could fight the pirates, but trust me, taking our cities is getting just the oposite result.

 

Gaizka

Edited March 15, 2016 by Gaizka

[maturin]

 

 

Britain does not want to see spain die but see spain grow and prosper, how and when this happens is up to the spanish player base. From talking in global, your in dire need of coal and possibly other resources, this war has not been kind to you but while its going on, it will get worse, all i say is wake up as a nation and come talk peace. Wake up and forget the past and talk peace as no matter what its hurting spain more than its hurting us brits even with multiple wars on different fronts going on.

Cool story bro.

 

Britain has decided to reduce Spain to one port, but wants peace and a prosperous Spain? I don't understand how all these British and Americans don't die of shame when they say things like this.

 

 

Britain wants Spain to be soooo prosperous that they are going to destroy it utterly until they hear the screams for mercy that they crave. Spain gets the bad rap for clueless diplomacy, but now Britain is repeating the same mistakes. I said it ad nauseum months ago; I say it again now. If you back someone into a corner and leave them nothing to lose, they will never surrender.

 

Both factions post high-minded pap on the forums, roleplaying fin bewigged gentlemen, while their behavior is that of a toddler tyrant smashing sandcastles.

[Potemkin]

Either way i don't give a shit because I'm still having fun peace or no peace. Forum talk means dick all anyways. The bridges are already burnt to ash and there are few people left willing to rebuild them as far as Spain and GB are concerned.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Potemkin

[maturin]

And really...

 

If you want to take your faction to world domination, that's OK. It really is. This is an RvR game right now. It rewards total conquest and destruction of your enemies. If you want to wipe out Spain or Sweden or France, just say so. Admit it.

 

But for the love of all that is holy, don't shriek about how your perfidious victims are forcing you to destroy them. Don't wax poetic about your own nobility and magnanimity, lamenting that your enemies won't sue for peace. First the U.S. did it, now Britain.

 

You all sound like a bunch of chickenshit bullshit artists, every last one.

[Potemkin]

Well someone finally said it. There it is.

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

I wouldnt say it is a matter of "national pride". In fact, I dont think there is such feeling in Spain (The RL Spain I mean)  I think it is more a matter of "the spanish way of underestanding life". You can call it spanish character if you like.

 

 

The more desperate the situation is, the more we enjoy fighting it.

The less cities we have, the less we have to worry about.

 

Now we have been beaten up we can unite and be happy fighting together against someone else instead of fighting each other 

 

If the british thought that taking our ports would make us surrunder...I dont think thats going to work.

I know that the plan was to secure your back so you could fight the pirates, but trust me, taking our cities is getting just the oposite result.

 

Gaizka

Good I am pleased that at least one good thing is coming from this a United Spain a Spain that talks as one not with forked tongue with a view to stabbing people in the back.

Gaizka we do not want a simpering neighbour who's only thoughts are on the past we want a powerful ally who can fight along side us. I know it may not seem like it now but maybe just maybe this is what was needed for Spain's own good I am just sad it came to this there are many within the British nation that did not want it to come down to this myself included.

[InfiniteAmount]

No one would ignore the maniac in their home to focus on a sane adversary across the street. The maniac must prove they are not a threat or be appropriately restrained before anything else.

No one wants to fight Spain. It's boring and the Spanish just don't put in the effort. It is like fucking a girl who just lies there. But as long as the Spanish are out in the Gulf, they are too dangerous to ignore as what they say and what they do rarely align. What the faction says they want changes daily, there's a new "official" Spanish diplomat every other day, disavowing all previous negotiations that their predecessors worked on. One day they want to ally with the US versus the British, the next day it's the other way around. It is like making deals with a crazy person.

[Potemkin]

So don't make any deals with us there Casanova. Trust me we will get over it.

[Bougainville]

Pirates.

 

Oh please. I would like to hear this from American lips.

[victor]

Yeah mate........ I'm in habana beach too.......... Your cigar smell fine.......

 

Still waiting..........

 

La Habana has no actual beach, you may be meaning Playa del Este

[InfiniteAmount]

Oh please. I would like to hear this from American lips.

Fine, us Americans are more concerned about Pirates than the Spanish, which is why we unilaterally stopped the offensive in the Yucatan two (three?) weeks ago without a peace treaty. The southern Gulf is militarily indefensible without controlling Cuba and Florida. The only way to hold it is by diplomatic agreement, something we could never achieve with Spain.

[Prince of Whales]

I personally view the nation of Spain as a rabid chihuahua.  Utterly insane, lots of yapping, but still has a bit of a bite.  I would much rather fight the Pirates, or the Danes, or the Americans.  Heck, just about any other nation would be preferable.  But the Spanish nation has proven to be completely untrustworthy with even the most basic diplomatic agreements.  If the only way to secure our rear areas is by wiping out the Spanish presence in the Gulf of Mexico, then so be it.  If they still cannot act sensibly, then we'll drive them all the way back to Havana.

[Potemkin]

Uh oh, all the way back to habana? You guys are really playing hardball now!

Edited March 15, 2016 by Potemkin

[Typical_Spanish]

We are the devil, we don't like people, we don't like anything, only destruction.

I hear enough bullshit about ALL of us.

Goodbye from the spanish devils.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Typical_Spanish

[Bougainville]

La pasión de la destrucción!

[maturin]

 

 

The southern Gulf is militarily indefensible without controlling Cuba and Florida. The only way to hold it is by diplomatic agreement, something we could never achieve with Spain. 

So you are suggesting that Spain is unreasonable for not signing away its territory? And the other nations regards this as negative characteristic?

 

I can discern two political values here:

1. You believe that larger factions have a right to conquer smaller ones, and that the smaller factions should be grateful for any amount of mercy or restraint
2. If your own faction was under threat by a more powerful foe, you would roll over and lick your conqueror's boot, just to keep your precious gold ports

 

Simultaneously out-of-control imperial chauvinism and a preference for gutless servility and appeasement. The British and Americans evoke the former and heap scorn on Spain for not exhibiting the latter.

[Ian2492]

So you are suggesting that Spain is unreasonable for not signing away its territory? And the other nations regards this as negative characteristic?

 

I can discern two political values here:

1. You believe that larger factions have a right to conquer smaller ones, and that the smaller factions should be grateful for any amount of mercy or restraint
2. If your own faction was under threat by a more powerful foe, you would roll over and lick your conqueror's boot, just to keep your precious gold ports

 

Simultaneously out-of-control imperial chauvinism and a preference for gutless servility and appeasement. The British and Americans evoke the former and heap scorn on Spain for not exhibiting the latter.

 

Most if not all or the British captains want spain to be a nation like when we were allied with them, but their actions (or the actions or some clans in their nation) made it so that if we let them be they'd backstab us, with the balance of power at the time, destroying most of their nation was a far easier task for us than dealing with their hilarious demands.

They seized the opportunity to attack us and broke diplomacy when the pirates started making a push in Haiti along with the Danes, now they are reaping what they sowed.

 

We don't think we have a ''right'' to conquer smaller nations,but we believe nation size should be balanced by amount of players and what they can reasonably, not by some untenable historical position, we tried helping Spain when the Americans attacked it. We don't have the ''right'' to vassalize them but we sure have the power to destroy them if they backstab us and tell us to f*** off.

 

If they want to negotiate and make peace i'm the sure diplomats on the british side will hear them, but they need to make reasonable demands and until then well our west flank is pretty darn secure.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ian2492

[Vernon Merrill]

The underlying elephant in the room here is that Spain thinks it DESERVES the Yucatan and other distant ports, because it was alloted that at the map outset.  This IS NOT REAL LIFE.  Your player base is not capable of holding those ports..  Hell, from what I see EVERYONE has already over-extended themselves at least once since EA launch.  Yes, you were dealt a shitty hand in that you were put smack dab in the middle of ALL the other factions.  However, simple reasoning should have made it obvious that you would have needed to focus on diplomacy, given that position.  Instead, you ended up having the MOST INEPT series of "diplomats" that basically ensured you would lose.  So, in a nutshell, instead of ceding SOME ports (that you couldnt defend anyway), and having one or two close allies, you bet it ALL on the advice of shitty "leaders" and ended up pissing people off and losing EVERYTHING.  And the final insult is that those "leaders" didnt really give a shit about Spain in the end...  They gelded themselves and turned "Pirate"...    arrrr, and all that other pirate-y bullshit.  Wheee, my flag is black.......  and stuff.

[maturin]

 

 

They seized the opportunity to attack us and broke diplomacy when the pirates started making a push in Haiti along with the Danes, now they are reaping what they sowed.

After MONTHS of the British taking Spanish ports under the guise of an 'alliance.' Ports which were never given back, but just dangled in negotiations.

 

Britain behaved from day one like the U.S. government ripping up treaties with the indians. Never have I seen an alliance that involves ceding half your territory, then receiving zero support. And yet somehow the Spanish are the backstabbing villains for trying to retake their own ports.

 

 

 

 

The underlying elephant in the room here is that Spain thinks it DESERVES the Yucatan and other distant ports, because it was alloted that at the map outset.  This IS NOT REAL LIFE.  Your player base is not capable of holding those ports..  Hell, from what I see EVERYONE has already over-extended themselves at least once since EA launch.  Yes, you were dealt a shitty hand in that you were put smack dab in the middle of ALL the other factions. 

And herein lies the problem.

 

Spain being set up to fail is every bit as stupid as pirate First Rates. The game can make compromises with history without altogether laughing in its face.

 

Let's be real here. If the game mechanics made the U.S. as weak as it was historically, and the British were landing in Charleston, the American faction's whining would be deafening. 

[InfiniteAmount]

So you are suggesting that Spain is unreasonable for not signing away its territory? And the other nations regards this as negative characteristic?

 

I can discern two political values here:

1. You believe that larger factions have a right to conquer smaller ones, and that the smaller factions should be grateful for any amount of mercy or restraint
2. If your own faction was under threat by a more powerful foe, you would roll over and lick your conqueror's boot, just to keep your precious gold ports

 

Simultaneously out-of-control imperial chauvinism and a preference for gutless servility and appeasement. The British and Americans evoke the former and heap scorn on Spain for not exhibiting the latter.

 

You can try and twist my words however you like. But I was referring to the treaty in which Spain refused the return of their ports in the Yucatan because of... well, who knows, really? (see: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10733-news-from-the-north/?p=193399).Spain couldn't hold on to the Yucatan, the US didn't hold on to it, and the only reason why Britain is holding on to it is because it's uncontested. There are too many avenues of attack, only a handful of freeports to organize a defense and the locations of the freeports are disadvantageous for such defense. Spain could've held the Yucatan if it dealt with the United States a month ago when Johnny Reb (Thomas Pain) made the huge diplomatic push to end the war (forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10733-news-from-the-north). A major point of that negotiation was the return of the handful of ports held by the US on the Yucatan at the time, but the Dons declined that diplomatic advance and consequently lost the Yucatan, and probably would've lost the entire Gulf to the US at the time if it weren't for the pirate push against the American Bahamas.

The United States fought Spain because Spain declared war on the United States, but suddenly we're the imperialistic conquerors because we managed to turn that war against Spain? Both the Spanish-American War and the Spanish-Anglo War are because Spain declared war on a larger, more powerful nation.

[Ian2492]

After MONTHS of the British taking Spanish ports under the guise of an 'alliance.' Ports which were never given back, but just dangled in negotiations.

 

Britain behaved from day one like the U.S. government ripping up treaties with the indians. Never have I seen an alliance that involves ceding half your territory, then receiving zero support. And yet somehow the Spanish are the backstabbing villains for trying to retake their own ports.

 

The main issue is that spain starts with an extremely large amount of ports and they expected to keep them, or to keep ports based on history. If they have 10% of the playerbase, they only deserve 10% of the ports, and they are not entitled to any one more. Britain conquered a lot of US ports with intentions to flip them back to Spain, but spain launched a suprise attack on Britain before the final agreements of which and when they would be ceded. Surely after they told us to f*** off and attacked us you didn't expect us to continue with the motion of ceding ports.

They did a similar thing with/against the US.

Spain needs to take a step back, realize that they'll never hold the amounts of ports that real life spain did, and they'll never hold their historical ports, because this is not a game based on history. They need to work with the neighboring nations and accept that fact and the sooner they'll do that the sooner they have a chance of being prosperous.

You say it as if the british have been attacking spain for a long time, yet the game has barely been out for two months. The first of which initial borders were drawn, and the second of it where british clans helped spain vs the US, and then responded to a foolish spanish attack.

 

The real solution here is a map wipe where all nations start with only their capital, and everything else is neutral, so that fake borders can be drawn and people stop trying to rely on history of another world.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ian2492