Yogscast just posted a Naval Action Video - New People Coming? UPDATE - (2nd Video on Feb 24th)

[Aetrion]

Nobody who plays for the ships wants to settle for a low-grade, mid-tier whatever-boat you get after some 30 hours in the game. That's just not even remotely good enough, and people being so thick headed about seeing that is going to cost this game a lot of customers in the long run for absolutely no good reason.

 

The clan-war and economy side of the game in no way depends on being based on ships, but the thematic investment side of the game 100% depends on being based on ships.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Aetrion

[maturin]

 

 

"Why did you pick this up?" - "Because I like ships" pretty much sums up why a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out that the game really doesn't cater to that simple fascination but instead makes ships into a currency you spend in huge clan wars that most people don't even remotely have the time to engage in. It could easily have both without compromising its principles if it tried.

 

You can have both if you try.

 

I've been playing since the wipe, for the faction that every other faction is trying to destroy. Guess how many durability I've lost in that time? One. And that was because I willingly joined the losing side of a gank.

 

You can play the game any way you like, and adequately avoid danger so long as you don't let yourself be cowed by it.

[Aetrion]

Yea yea, the game is perfect, the people are at fault for not liking it.  That's a very easy excuse, but it's not how you make a hugely successful game.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Aetrion

[maturin]

Yea yea, the game is perfect, the people are at fault for not liking it.  That's a very easy excuse, but it's not how you make a hugely successful game.

Trying to please everyone is yet more harmful.

 

 

90% of legitimate complaints ultimately stem from the fact that this is a multiplayer game. You can't make a multiplayer game appeal to all the foibles of SP fans* without ruining it.

 

*And I include myself in that number. I still hope to see a dedicated server-based moddable version of NA released someday. I'd buy it again.

[Aetrion]

It's not about pleasing everyone, it's about servicing the most basic reason to play the game first. It's simply about the fact that if you're building a game for people who like ships then the game should treat your ship as your avatar, something you grow and customize and invest a lot of time into progressing with. People who play for the ships aren't interested in settling for mid-tier for economic reasons. They are interested in creating their dream ship.  From there the game has every opportunity to serve different sub communities, with their own unique systems that people can take their ships into. 

 

Right now the game compromises the most basic motivation to play to serve a sub community, which is simply a bad way of going about things. Ultimately nobody benefits from it, not even the sub communities that are currently being served, since they would be seeing more of what they love too if the game was bringing in more people.

[Schuetzengel]

oh cool, pirates still can only join the defender side when attacking each other

[Prater]

This game isn't WoWS or WoT for Age of Sail.  The only thing people can seem to agree on with free ships is making a Naval Career in which you don't buy ships but are assigned ships.

[admin]

This is a pretty good look at how most people are going to view this game. 

 

"Why did you pick this up?" - "Because I like ships" pretty much sums up why a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out that the game really doesn't cater to that simple fascination but instead makes ships into a currency you spend in huge clan wars that most people don't even remotely have the time to engage in. It could easily have both without compromising its principles if it tried.

 

Hmmm but is not it what it was in real life? Like the Age of sail experience? Ships were careeened, mothballed, destroyed, sold for lumber and used only when war required it.

On the other hand - do we need to change it? And what do we need to change to give the feeling you describe?

[Aetrion]

Hmmm but is not it what it was in real life? Like the Age of sail experience? Ships were careeened, mothballed, destroyed, sold for lumber and used only when war required it.

On the other hand - do we need to change it?

 

I think the game does a very good job of being true to life, I just don't think real life is what the majority of people are looking for in a game.

 

If someone picks up this game purely because they love tall ships then their primary motivation for playing is "Ships are cool, I want the coolest ship!". It's the same as playing a roleplaying game if someone just starts with the premise of "I want to be the mightiest warrior with the most badass armor". Chasing that dream is the most basic motivation for a thematic game. Naval Action doesn't really serve that motivation though. You don't unlock ships and then get to spend a lot of time refining and customizing and improving them and turning them into your perfect ship. Instead you relatively quickly reach the point where buying a better or bigger ship has nothing but disadvantages because you can't afford to lose it, and unless you have an entirely different motivation for playing the game than just the ships at that point you're going to lose interest.

 

From my perspective the economy and clan war side of the game can be built around other things than ships just fine. The essential cost factor to them can be harbor improvements or special siege weapons or consumable items of some kind. The "I want the coolest ship" side of the game on the other hand completely depends on people just being able to log in and put some hours into upgrading and customizing their ship. Sure, that may be a more casual and shallow playstyle compared to people engaging in world-conquest and clan politics, but the people who enjoy it still pay the same money, and in fact might even pay more, because they are going to be a lot more likely to buy premium cosmetics for their ship.

 

Ultimately I think the game can very easily serve both crowds. The clan war aspect isn't going to suffer if a defeat happens because you lost your cargohold full of very expensive occupation troops when someone sank your ship instead of losing the whole ship. The economy aspect isn't going to suffer if people need to replace worn out cannons or sails instead of worn out ships periodically. The game's balance will be better all around as well if the reason to use lower rates is not mostly just "it's cheaper", but some real matter of preference. 

 

I suppose my primary argument boils down to this: Open world RPG is a wildly popular genre because simply playing for the sake of building a character is a very basic and powerful motivation, so treating ships like RPG characters casts a much wider net than a strict simulation. 

[weissenwulf]

I suppose my primary argument boils down to this: Open world RPG is a wildly popular genre because simply playing for the sake of building a character is a very basic and powerful motivation, so treating ships like RPG characters casts a much wider net than a strict simulation. 

 

This is an excellent point & I think ship customization will go a long way towards addressing it. Even simply naming a ship adds an important connection. 

 

Think of how many hours are spent in RPG character creators -- players agonize what to name their character, hair color, high cheekbones, etc etc. I agree with you wholeheartedly that a simple suspension of reality in terms of mechanics that allows players to create personal relationships with their ships would go a long way in terms of drawing borderline purchasers in, and would come at no cost the overall historical accuracy of the game. (Assuming no pink sails, etc.)  

[Aetrion]

Yup, which is why I think the ships themselves should be permanent, nobody is going to want to obsess over customizing something that comes with a countdown to destruction. Maybe give them an RPG style paperdoll where you can equip planking and sails and so on of various qualities to get the effects crafting grades have currently and make those wear out when you sink or get captured. That's perfectly fine because that doesn't mess with the idea of having your named, customized ship that is the centerpiece of your story and can support an economy all the same.

[Viziam]

I disagree with you guys completely. This game isn't an RPG subscription model where you develop a character or class.. The ships are mere tools for accomplishing objectives. What are the objectives? Destroying ships and capturing ports mainly and doing a little merchanting to make money. Perhaps in the future some exploration type of game play. If this game turns into "pimp-my-ship" for cash, then I think you will see a lot of people leaving. PvP is the heart of this game. Please keep it that way. I don't mind a certain amount of "pimping" like name customization (even this can get dumb quickly), a few different paint schemes perhaps, but by and large, ships of this era looked pretty much the same. Customization features I don't think will be a major draw point or add much value to the game play.

 

Perhaps if Game Labs implemented an "captain persona" that you can then develop skills for, purchase uniforms, & outfits for, etc I could see some RPG appeal, but currently this game isn't an RPG style game. I'm fine with that. I think NA will always be a niche game like EVE Online. Some people don't like comparisons to EVE but its actually very similar style - substitute space ships for sailing ships. EVE has a small but solid fan base, with many hundreds of players making the trek to Iceland every year for EVE fanfest.. If Naval Action develops a similar niche community, I think Game Labs would be lucky. 

[Aetrion]

There is no reason why we can't have both though. Any aspect of PvP where attrition and high cost are important can be managed with systems that are specific to clan wars and don't bar the game from attracting players that have no interest in that. In fact I'd argue they can be managed a lot better with specific systems that don't need to strike a balance with general accessibility but can be tuned to the exact needs of the PvP community. For instance, when you make ships the primary consumable for clan wars the factions that are already winning are getting the ships cheaper, the ones that are already losing are getting hit with additional difficulty in procuring them. That kind of a slippery slope isn't at all good for a sustainable PvP environment. A more conquest specific cost to capturing harbors, like equipping and transporting occupation troops, could go up in price the more an empire already controls, thereby creating a counterbalance to snowballing expansion.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Aetrion

[AGermanGuy]

Hmmm but is not it what it was in real life? Like the Age of sail experience? Ships were careeened, mothballed, destroyed, sold for lumber and used only when war required it.

On the other hand - do we need to change it? And what do we need to change to give the feeling you describe?

I would LOVE ship customization being in the game! Flags, naming your ship, such stuff

[Ghroznak]

I would LOVE ship customization being in the game! Flags, naming your ship, such stuff

 

I totally agree!

 

I want my RenOrcMee

 

*edit* I shall name it the ORN Waaagh ... (ORN = Orcish Royal Navy)

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ghroznak

[hiclipucli]

NEVER !!!

[Chijohnaok]

Not sure what people were expecting watching the video considering they were 2 new players who have never played before. I personally can relate to their experience.

 

The game is great..i have invested quite some time in it. What will put people off though is the lack of guidance for new players the game offers (None).

 

End of the day...as good as it is..the game offers little more than combat, basic trading, ganking, crafting, port cpatures and a grind via the same missions over and over to level up. 

 

I have 130hrs (probably 100 alone just sailing from various locations to actually get something done) clocked since my purchase 2 weeks ago....Im a plunderer and just got my ship "Surprise". I seriously cannot see myself "grinding" out anymore levels.

 

Give players more variation to leveling:

 

Exploration missions

Trading missions

Ship capturing missions

PVP ship capture missions

Port capturing missions

 

Weekly (pvp) kill missions ...kill one player of each faction within a week

[My bold emphasis above]

 

I like this (perhaps with a slight variation).

 

Perhaps they could develop a "Weekly mission" which would give the player the opportunity to earn gold/XP for completing that mission.

(As Robaroo mentioned) the nature of the missions could focus on things like exploration, trading, PVP and/or port capture missions or even a combination of the above.

 

Maybe the Weekly Mission could include several choices and the player would "choose one of the above.

 

Just off the top of my head examples of potential missions might include:

--- "The port of XXXX is running short of supplies.  Sail to this port with trade goods and successfully deliver the trade goods".  (The destination port might be far away from the starting port and/or run through the zone of pirates and/or another nation.  You could designate a free port as the destination if the player's nation doesn't have any ports that fit this category.

---  "Craft and successfully deliver a ship to the following port (insert port name)".  The port could either be far away or the route to the port would go through dangerous waters.

--- "Capture or sink a pirate ship.  Blackbeard (an NPC pirate) has been harassing the port of _______.  Sail there, hunt down and either capture or sink the pirate"

---  "Exploration.  Unlock the port of _______." (sail to a designated port that the player has not yet visited).

 

These are just a potential mission ideas.  The possibilities are endless.

This could allow players to earn XP doing things that they might not have really done much of and in this way could open them to other aspects of the game.

[Chijohnaok]

I quite enjoyed the Yogscast videos when they were starting out with minecraft, but when they overmilked that cow it became quite bad.. Scripted bad jokes and all that. On one hand, more publicity and turnover can be a good thing, on the other, are these the 'kind' of players we want in this marvellous game?

 

More people who will purchase the game (noobs, Yogscast followers, and devout players) are as good thing as it allows the developers the resources necessary to finish this game and to allow them to branch off into the "nice to haves" that players are always seeking.  

Edited February 24, 2016 by Chijohnaok

[Viziam]

[My bold emphasis above]

 

I like this (perhaps with a slight variation).

 

Perhaps they could develop a "Weekly mission" which would give the player the opportunity to earn gold/XP for completing that mission.

(As Robaroo mentioned) the nature of the missions could focus on things like exploration, trading, PVP and/or port capture missions or even a combination of the above.

 

Maybe the Weekly Mission could include several choices and the player would "choose one of the above.

 

Just off the top of my head examples of potential missions might include:

--- "The port of XXXX is running short of supplies.  Sail to this port with trade goods and successfully deliver the trade goods".  (The destination port might be far away from the starting port and/or run through the zone of pirates and/or another nation.  You could designate a free port as the destination if the player's nation doesn't have any ports that fit this category.

---  "Craft and successfully deliver a ship to the following port (insert port name)".  The port could either be far away or the route to the port would go through dangerous waters.

--- "Capture or sink a pirate ship.  Blackbeard (an NPC pirate) has been harassing the port of _______.  Sail there, hunt down and either capture or sink the pirate"

---  "Exploration.  Unlock the port of _______." (sail to a designated port that the player has not yet visited).

 

These are just a potential mission ideas.  The possibilities are endless.

This could allow players to earn XP doing things that they might not have really done much of and in this way could open them to other aspects of the game.

 

I would really like to see an option for PvP missions where 2 players from opposing factions get the same mission. For example, Brit player gets mission to escort trader through hostile territory. Pirate player picks up a mission where he "receives a tip" that a juicy trader will be transiting through this area at a specific time.. to me that would be an awesome way of making missions interesting.

[Sir Robert Calder]

Yogscast along with other notable YouTubers make videos firstly and primarily for themselves. It is in their best interests to make content that panders to the tastes and interests of their fans, many of which are young children/teenagers who enjoy watch personalities play video games in a humorous way. To acknowledge this game's existence is in the benefit of this game's longevity, as I am sure out of the millions of subscribers a YouTube fanbase might have, there will be a certain percentage of those who might be very heavily interested in this particular game's set up. People who enjoy strategy games -- particular ones focused on historical settings, are generally in the minority as far as statistical data that I have seen over the course of my career. However, I've found that minority to be a heavily dedicated one and while Yogscast videos may not represent Naval Action in its best light, I expect that Yogscast fans that are interested in this game will judge it by its own merits and not Yogscast's itself.

[Fesevoa]

They posted a follow up video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm_oB9r9TY

[Chijohnaok]

I would really like to see an option for PvP missions where 2 players from opposing factions get the same mission. For example, Brit player gets mission to escort trader through hostile territory. Pirate player picks up a mission where he "receives a tip" that a juicy trader will be transiting through this area at a specific time.. to me that would be an awesome way of making missions interesting.

 

 

I like that.  Another mission idea that is almost guaranteed to result in some combat.

[Aetrion]

Hm, they are definitely running into a lot of problems because they don't fully understand the combat system in that video.

[Ruthless4u]

You

 

You can play the game any way you like, and adequately avoid danger so long as you don't let yourself be cowed by it.

Yes because running from the majority of fights is so much fun.

The problem is, and unfortunately I seen a thread started on this topic but mods are afraid of discussion so they locked it within a few minutes before I could post.

Skill based gameplay is fun and exciting.

Trading in this game is a no skill prospect. You sail from point A to point B hoping to get a good deal. So much skill. It's a time sink, to argue otherwise is just lunacy.

Crafting is another no skill time sink activity, maybe if you could make it more like real crafting. But I honestly don't see how that would be possible. It does provide something usefull, but still does not involve any real ability on the part of the player.

There is nothing wrong with time sinks in games, but when you make the no skill time sinks th main focus of the game it becomes stagnant and boring. Why so many decided this should be an Econ game with barely any pvp combat instead of a primarily PVP with a small amount of forced Econ is beyond me.

I would love to see a discussion on this but as stated mods are afraid to allow discussion on certain topics.

[kumisz]

So, exactly, what harm do you suffer from the fact that other players (willingly) play for trading and crafting instead of PvP? Some players, like myself, simply don't like PvP activities. Some players, like myself, are however enjoying establishing a new trade route, or crafting a new ship for the PvP players. Why does that bother you so much?

 

Yes because running from the majority of fights is so much fun.

The problem is, and unfortunately I seen a thread started on this topic but mods are afraid of discussion so they locked it within a few minutes before I could post.

Skill based gameplay is fun and exciting.

Trading in this game is a no skill prospect. You sail from point A to point B hoping to get a good deal. So much skill. It's a time sink, to argue otherwise is just lunacy.

Crafting is another no skill time sink activity, maybe if you could make it more like real crafting. But I honestly don't see how that would be possible. It does provide something usefull, but still does not involve any real ability on the part of the player.

There is nothing wrong with time sinks in games, but when you make the no skill time sinks th main focus of the game it becomes stagnant and boring. Why so many decided this should be an Econ game with barely any pvp combat instead of a primarily PVP with a small amount of forced Econ is beyond me.

I would love to see a discussion on this but as stated mods are afraid to allow discussion on certain topics.