Ship's Heeling Reflected in Bow / Stern Gunnery

[Wesreidau]

So I was outrunning a Frigate in my Brig when I noticed this problem...

 

If a ship with bow guns is sailing across the wind, it will heel the gun decks downwind as the masts push downwind. This is reflected fairly well in standard gunnery, with limits of elevation and depression being shifted as the ship rocks. However, I am not noticing an effect on the bow or stern guns.

 

If my ship is leaning to the left by five degrees, my cannon's axis of elevation will also be skewed to the left five degrees. For short range firing close to the level this will have minimal effect, but at long ranges a cannon being rotated 5 degrees left, then elevated 20 degrees up, will be "pulling" its shots rather noticeably to the left. This "windage" will make it difficult to hit a distant target with chase cannons.

 

At present the gunner seems to perfectly correct for the ship's heeling and the round rises and falls perfectly in the direction of fire. However, a more realistic simulation would require the player to adjust their point of aim to the right to correct for the ship's heeling to the left. This increases the skill required to effectively use bow guns and improves the fleeing player's chances of successfully disengaging. A pursuer may also depower his sails to reduce heeling, at the cost of speed, or install the optimized ballast modifications to improve his fore-aft gunnery.

 

Now I don't have much experience with bow guns myself (Bryg Lyfe) so if heeling is reflected in bow/stern gun firing, please let me know. Otherwise I hope it is included so ships pursuing at full sail have more difficult gunnery problems to solve at long range.

 

And yes, I got away in my Brig. No need to post "qq git gud scrub".

[Galileus]

As far as it sounds good on paper, I think it would be too unintuitive to include as a mechanic.

[jodgi]

This is interesting from a realism point of view.

If we tied the aiming bar to the hull's angle of heel we would only have to aim a slightly angled bar in the same spot we aim a level bar today... Why bother?

You'll find it is easy to escape attackers in the OW and instances.

Until you meet a speed fitted trinco...

[maturin]

 

If we tied the aiming bar to the hull's angle of heel we would only have to aim a slightly angled bar in the same spot we aim a level bar today... Why bother?

Because it's really really hard.

 

Try shooting an under-barrel grenade launcher in ArmA 3 while you are leaning against a wall. It messes with your head.

[Galileus]

Because it's really really hard.

 

That's... not an argument...

[maturin]

That's... not an argument...

It's a counter-argument.

[akd]

This argument rests on the fallacious assumption that the aiming cursor actually inputs elevation and traverse into the cannons. It does not. Rather, you are telling gun crews to fire their cannons in "that direction" and to "that range" (you are not shown the range, but the aiming cursor is a range input, not an elevation input). Gun crews then automatically handle the traverse and elevation to accomplish the order, whether they are controlling broadside guns or chasers.

[maturin]

 

 

Gun crews then automatically handle the traverse and elevation to accomplish the order, whether they are controlling broadside guns or chasers. 

Or in the case of chase guns, they duly shoot 10 degrees off to one side of the aiming arc.

[Wesreidau]

This argument rests on the fallacious assumption that the aiming cursor actually inputs elevation and traverse into the cannons. It does not. Rather, you are telling gun crews to fire their cannons in "that direction" and to "that range" (you are not shown the range, but the aiming cursor is a range input, not an elevation input). Gun crews then automatically handle the traverse and elevation to accomplish the order, whether they are controlling broadside guns or chasers.

 

So how are the gun crews wedging the guns around so they're perfectly level before elevating them? You beg the question.

[Wesreidau]

As far as it sounds good on paper, I think it would be too unintuitive to include as a mechanic.

 

I'm leaning left and aiming down the center and but my shots fall to the left. Maybe I should adjust my aim point right. Oh look, that adjusts neatly and within two shots I'm back on target.

 

This is not unintuitive at all.

[Wesreidau]

So you'd be hitting 45 feet left of a 30 foot wide ship? So I'm aiming at the center point and the shot could fall fifteen feet left or right and still hit a target that wide, but by your numbers, my shot will fall three times that distance to the side. You want that completely ignored? Why?

 

"Its easy enough to escape in OW" isn't an argument. The purpose of this suggestion is to make the gunnery simulation more accurate. I am merely noting an effect this improvement to the simulation will have. If this were a flight simulator, and I were proposing wing-mounted machine guns being warped off their zeros in high-G turns, would you say, "Well, its easy enough to avoid bullets anyway"? No! its a deficiency in the simulation significant enough to affect tactics. 

[jodgi]

As far as our perspective playing the game is concerned, this is all aimbar tied to heel would do:

(Please forgive the potato paintskills.)

On the left is what we have now, the aiming system is locked in plane with the horizon and we just point the bar to our target and select our elevation.

On the right is what it would be with aiming system locked in plane with the ship's deck. All we would have to do is to point a tiny red bar tilted slightly in the exact same spot we would do now.

Unless you want to have a special non-stabilized gunnery system for the chasers?

Gunners wouldn't correct for tilt with jacking up the carriage, would or did they? You just correct for tilt with a few degrees to the side and a tiny bit more elevation?

Am I missing something here?

[maturin]

 

 

Gunners wouldn't correct for tilt with jacking up the carriage, would or did they?

I don't imagine they could do that very effectively. And if they could, heel is far from constant anyhow. It will change in every gust and lull.

 

A tilted barrel would really throw off the rudimentary sighting method. Luckily most ships with chasers were pretty stiff.