Is there any reason for Solo players to own high rated ships?

[Ruthless4u]

Being a solo player, is there really any reason for me to own a high rated ship? They are to vulnerable to sail alone, and although clans such as TDA and TF are generous with no clan member participation in their PB's, I cannot count on that as their ranks grow.

Also given the cost, and lack of durability I just cannot see the point in owning one.

If the majority of the games population ends up being solo players who can't use them, is there really any for the developers to even add more a steady rate.

( yes I realize this taken from somewhere else, but I thought it warranted its own discussion)

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ruthless4u

[mirror452]

If the majority of the games population ends up being solo players who can't use them, is there really any for the developers to even add more a steady rate.

 

I don't really understand what you want to suggest... Could you please rephrase it?

[Ruthless4u]

If most players are solo or not in clans, with the higher rate ships being basically useless to solo players what is the point in having ships that the majority of the population can't realistically use?

[Kedge]

Why do you think the majority of the game's population will be solo players?

[Ruthless4u]

Why do you think the majority of the game's population will be solo players?

From my understanding most MMO's are populated by solo players, or maybe with small groups of friends that would not be effective in such ships.

[Mrdoomed]

For me no.

[Bleakbeard]

A bigger ship allows you to take on bigger ships.  Granted, as a primarily solo player I keep a speed rigged Privateer for when the hours when the clans start showing up.

 

Taking a Trader Snow with a Snow, Surprise or Renom is vastly more efficient than trying with a Privateer.

[Prater]

Being a solo player, is there really any reason for me to own a high rated ship? They are to vulnerable to sail alone, and although clans such as TDA and TF are generous with no clan member participation in their PB's, I cannot count on that as their ranks grow.

Also given the cost, and lack of durability I just cannot see the point in owning one.

If the majority of the games population ends up being solo players who can't use them, is there really any for the developers to even add more a steady rate.

( yes I realize this taken from somewhere else, but I thought it warranted its own discussion)

We certainly can't stop you from joining.

[Justme]

We certainly can't stop you from joining.

Don't be so sure of that.

[Aetrion]

Right now this game seems to be going down a path where it's basically saying "Screw everyone who came here for tall ship battles, we want to be a hardcore clan based economy/conquest simulation that uses the promise of naval battles to trick people into buying it".

[MaliceA4Thought]

Right now this game seems to be going down a path where it's basically saying "Screw everyone who came here for tall ship battles, we want to be a hardcore clan based economy/conquest simulation that uses the promise of naval battles to trick people into buying it".

I think you will find all MMO style games have varying levels of acess to parts of the game.  In world of warcraft there is content that only the biggest clans can do and will never be available to a solo player.  In Eve Online, the solo player is unlikely to ever own or fly a Titan.  In World of Tanks, a solo player will never be able to participate in End Game clan battles.

 

The way this game is designed a solo player could indeed own a First Rate ship of the line, but those ships are designed for big fleet battles, but Big Fleet battles were not everything that the age of sail was about.  The majority of ships in the fleet were Frigates and third rates (or smaller) performing blockade duties, messenger services, interceptions and hunting pirates and defending trading lanes..  all of which are possible today and as the game developes I believe there will be more use for and all battles are age of sail battles.

 

Most people with first rates will not use them on a daily basis, they will still use the more agile and friendly smaller ships.

 

I believe that in any MMO it is an unreasonable expectation that a solo player can accomplish what a clan can accomplish.  At least in this game, you could ally with a clan to get into the port battles.. in most games of this type it would not be possible for a non clan member to even consider being a participant.

 

This is a multiplayer game, and I would suggest to you that you have 2 choices..  play as multiplayer in a clan or group and get to play with the big group battles (when they happen), or accepot the single player role and build your own game to that level.

 

The game is not going to dumb down the multiplayer content for solo players, and none of the other games of this type have either, so I believe you should decide, fairly early, whether you want to play as an MMO  or as solo within an MMO environment..

 

Malice.

Edited February 9, 2016 by MaliceA4Thought

[Aetrion]

The problem isn't that a 1st rate may not be a fantastic tool for a solo player who's completely by themselves, the problems are that:

1. There is no advancement path to anywhere else that you can follow right now.

2. There are no systems that allow organized groups to effectively draft solo players into service. 

 

In my experience most solo players are actually not at all averse to participating in group content, they just don't care about organizing it or being beholden to a specific group. That's why features like group finders are so popular in MMOs, because they allow solo players to get into the group content despite not wanting to make a commitment to a guild. 

 

What a game like WoW can't do is allow guilds to draft soloists into their raids and stuff because there are limited raid spots and everyone needs to pull their weight. A game like this could have a major advantage there if it gives the organized playmaker clans the ability to mobilize soloists. There is no penalty for having one more first rate tag along to a harbour siege after all, so the only thing the game needs to make those activities accessible to soloists is allowing the clans that plan them to put them up on the mission boards somehow, or for the soloists to be able to flag themselves as guns for hire somewhere that allows people who are planning a major action to just draft extra people from there.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Aetrion

[MaliceA4Thought]

The problem isn't that a 1st rate may not be a fantastic tool for a solo player who's completely by themselves, the problems are that:

1. There is no advancement path to anywhere else that you can follow right now.

 

For this one, there is a suggestions forum and I am sure the developers would welcome suggestions, however the game is still Alpha and it has been stated many times that they are getting the core right before developing the bolt ons..  I see this changing but perhaps not overnight.

 

2. There are no systems that allow organized groups to effectively draft solo players into service. 

 

There is nation chat, and most nations have a free teamspeak you can join..  but isn't this point arguing against your previous post in many ways?   

 

We see many solo players joining in Port battles, but those that have been through the prep and planning in a clan are more likely to get the first slots.   

 

In this game you CAN get in as a soloist as opposed to the majority of MMO's where you cant..  and sorry Group finder still wont let you play end content in WoW..  unless you are in one of the biggest clans, have trained with them and know your role and are experienced in that particular group.. you are a liability.

 

Malice

 

 

[Nathaniel]

Well, i don't share the presupposed dualism at all. Of course you can be a solo player and be part of a clan. In fact, i'm sure at this point more players are, than aren't. You don't have to level in a group, you don't have to gank in a group, you don't have to craft in a group. But you can, even as a solo player, get out your solo-crafted 1st rate from time to time to use it in an organized environement, where it belongs. I honestly know no clans were that wouldn't possible, i.e. no clans that would force you to play in a group all the time, at least if you don't wan't to get a free ship. So no problem here.

[MaliceA4Thought]

The problem isn't that a 1st rate may not be a fantastic tool for a solo player who's completely by themselves, the problems are that:

1. There is no advancement path to anywhere else that you can follow right now.

2. There are no systems that allow organized groups to effectively draft solo players into service. 

 

In my experience most solo players are actually not at all averse to participating in group content, they just don't care about organizing it or being beholden to a specific group. That's why features like group finders are so popular in MMOs, because they allow solo players to get into the group content despite not wanting to make a commitment to a guild. 

 

What a game like WoW can't do is allow guilds to draft soloists into their raids and stuff because there are limited raid spots and everyone needs to pull their weight. A game like this could have a major advantage there if it gives the organized playmaker clans the ability to mobilize soloists. There is no penalty for having one more first rate tag along to a harbour siege after all, so the only thing the game needs to make those activities accessible to soloists is allowing the clans that plan them to put them up on the mission boards somehow, or for the soloists to be able to flag themselves as guns for hire somewhere that allows people who are planning a major action to just draft extra people from there.

Another follow up  sorry  too much coffee to late at night.

 

Your comment bolded above..  There IS a potential penalty for having a soloist along..   As we get into Port Battles against defended ports, there is a huge amount of planning and work that goes into trying to ensure it goes succesfully and you don't loose those big ships.    A soloist who is just along for the ride can therefore be a liability not an assett in some situations.

 

It is sometimes worth going in one ship down thatn having someone who doesnt know the plan.

 

Malice

[MaliceA4Thought]

Well, i don't share the presupposed dualism at all. Of course you can be a solo player and be part of a clan. In fact, i'm sure at this point more players are, than aren't. You don't have to level in a group, you don't have to gank in a group, you don't have to craft in a group. But you can, even as a solo player, get out your solo-crafted 1st rate from time to time to use it in an organized environement, where it belongs. I honestly know no clans were that wouldn't possible, i.e. no clans that would force you to play in a group all the time, at least if you don't wan't to get a free ship. So no problem here.

Sorry I was not being clear..  I agree a lot of clan players play solo and then group up when needed..  but that is far easier than not being a clan member and wanting to take part in big group battles from time to time.   To me that is the dualism decision that needs to be taken and will depend upon each and every player..  but I do not forsee the solo player being able to ever achieve what a clan can achieve working as a concerted group.

 

Malice

Edited February 9, 2016 by MaliceA4Thought

[Aetrion]

It is sometimes worth going in one ship down thatn having someone who doesnt know the plan.

 

I think that's more the hardcore clan elitism kicking in than any real danger from having someone not stick to the plan. I mean unless they start crashing wildly into your fleet or something what's the worst thing that could happen? That they get out of position and die?

[mirror452]

I think that's more the hardcore clan elitism kicking in than any real danger from having someone not stick to the plan. I mean unless they start crashing wildly into your fleet or something what's the worst thing that could happen? That they get out of position and die?

 

Crashing wildly into other ships is unfortunately exactly what is going to happen. Seen that often enough in the big Trafalgar battles in Sea Trials... And there nothing happened if you lost your ship.

[Ghroznak]

I just want my Renommee or Surprise, then I am quite happy. At most I might shoot for a Bellona.

 

I find it not only reasonable, but also logical, that the clans are the ones that will have access to the 1st rates. Afterall, it will the clans and organized play, not lonewolfing, which will expand the borders of your faction, or even more importantly, defending them.

 

Surely lonewolves can participate, but then in smaller ships.

 

That said, it is certainly not impossible for a lonewolf to get a 1st rate. It will just take many hours of crafting and a fair share of gold coins in resources to make it happen... and then you will have a ship which you may, or may not, decide to take out of port.

 

I am predicting that quite a number of lone wolves will eventually be sailing 1st rates on the PvE server where the risk is minimal.

 

How many lone wolves are willing to spend the time and resources on a 1st rate on a PvP server if they don't have a clan or otherwise reliable support from their faction... ehh.... probably not many.

 

But that is the difference between PvE and PvP in a nutshell. In PvE you can hoard, in PvP you need to account for risk of losing things.

[Mrdoomed]

The problem isn't that a 1st rate may not be a fantastic tool for a solo player who's completely by themselves, the problems are that:

1. There is no advancement path to anywhere else that you can follow right now.

2. There are no systems that allow organized groups to effectively draft solo players into service.

In my experience most solo players are actually not at all averse to participating in group content, they just don't care about organizing it or being beholden to a specific group. That's why features like group finders are so popular in MMOs, because they allow solo players to get into the group content despite not wanting to make a commitment to a guild.

What a game like WoW can't do is allow guilds to draft soloists into their raids and stuff because there are limited raid spots and everyone needs to pull their weight. A game like this could have a major advantage there if it gives the organized playmaker clans the ability to mobilize soloists. There is no penalty for having one more first rate tag along to a harbour siege after all, so the only thing the game needs to make those activities accessible to soloists is allowing the clans that plan them to put them up on the mission boards somehow, or for the soloists to be able to flag themselves as guns for hire somewhere that allows people who are planning a major action to just draft extra people from there.

You are here in this thread complaining that you want a soft core game lol. Dude wtf did you even buy this game , or did you not research it ?

You need to go play Sid Meyers pirates or uncharted waters. Those are for you. Please stop complaining about the system that knew was in this game. Jeees.

[The MetaBaron]

assuming you do not participate in any of the attacks or defenses for your nations progress..  where having the largest effectively crewed ship is paramount.

 

Then what is your idea of a high rated ship? Would you count a Surprise or Renemmee to be one, or is it 3rd rate and larger?

 

Lastly, I am curious what are you goals in the game? If you are a crafter than thats one thing, or maybe you just like to sail around (this is ok too)...  Many of the "larger" ships like a Surprise, or Tricomalee make for great trader hunters. Heck a Constitution would be great as well, as its surprisingly fast. Often their cargo is big enough to bring back everything, preventing the need to sail back in the trader to get everything home. I am sort of at a loss as to what you do or want to accomplish in the game. Which sort of undermines credibility of your question if you did not think to have included this in your post.

 

...and one more thing, lower durability really means nothing. I do lots of large battles and focus on PvP... I do not lose ships all the time, but knowing when to retreat (or initiate an attack) is both a realistic and important part of game strategy. Even the larger ships like a Constitution with less durability, they are not that expensive in Basic form to replace.... nor are upgrades that groundbreaking in their affects on stats that you may choose to leave off of a 1 Dur ship for risk of losing.

Edited February 10, 2016 by The MetaBaron