So your ship can flip over

[McFatts]

I was fighting a battle in my snow and I had rammed up against a brig and wa bam over rolls my ship and I'm toast.  Goodbye 1 durability.  Does this happen often?  Also, what triggers it?

 

 

[IronClaw]

I was fighting a battle in my snow and I had rammed up against a brig and wa bam over rolls my ship and I'm toast.  Goodbye 1 durability.  Does this happen often?  Also, what triggers it?

 

It *can* happen often if you want it to. If you practice doing it, you can use it to your advantage. 

What triggers it? Ramming. Don't ram

[VonVolks]

In this game, generally speaking, if it can happen to your ship, yes it can happen to your ship....

 

Sinking

losing masts

losing bow sprit

fire

explosion

capsize

being captured

 

who knows what else.....

[Ghroznak]

Bigger ships will flip smaller ships.

 

It usually happens when you ram a ship from 45° to perpendicular impact, and keep pushing into the ship at full sails. Also depends on the waves and the roll of the ship. If he is already 'leaning' away from you and you hit him and keep pushing then he will flip over.

 

The Snow is a rather small ship and I've seen them flipped over brigs and other ships.

 

Also, a weird case of flipping happened the other day where my friend was sailing a Cutter, and an NPC Privateer ended up sailing up and onto the rear deck of his Cutter... it looked almost like he was loading the privateer up as cargo... and then bam! The Privateer went tits up and sank. Funny as hell Luckily we got it on 'tape'. You can see the action below

 

[maturin]

 

What triggers it? Ramming. Don't ram

Ramming? Try light grazing. The counter (underside of a ship's stern) can lightly bump over the rail of a smaller vessel and capsize it for no reason.

 

It's a glitch, folks. Fix in the works.

[tarkin1980]

I have had my Niagara flipped twice after a trader's brig disengaged from combat and nudged me slightly with it's stern while turning away from me. I was also flipped once when a cutter from my own fleet rammed me. Yay, 3 durability lost from my reward ship just from sheer nonsense!

[Slamz]

It's a glitch, folks. Fix in the works.

 

[citation needed]

 

I don't see where it's a glitch. It's physics. It's a pretty clear cause-and-effect relationship. One of the first things I think most people learn is the risks of trying to push a Trader Lynx too hard when attempting to capture it, or why it's a bad idea to ram really big ships with really small ones.

[maturin]

I don't see where it's a glitch. It's physics. It's a pretty clear cause-and-effect relationship. 

lolno

 

Have you ever set foot near a boat larger than a canoe?

 

Hell, forget large vessels. Anyone who has paddled a kayak knows that the capsizing physics are bunk. A kayak is the least stable boat ever invented by humanity. But when you place two of them alongside each other and one paddler leans on top of the neighboring boat, the newly-formed rafts of kayaks becomes impossible to capsize in all but the largest waves. With Naval Action physics, one of the kayaks instantly turns turtle just because its neighbor scraped against the side a little.

 

1. IRL none of the force vectors in the in-game collisions would result in anything other than lateral movement
2. Even if you got a force vector that caused one vessel to tilt, real sailing vessels have dramatically more initial and final stability.
3. A real vessel has too much initial stability to be heeled by simple low-speed bumping against an adjacent vessel
4. A real vessel has enough righting arm to pop back upright in many cases where in-game ships capsize
5. Only in fantasy land can a sailing vessel actually climb up onto another ship's deck, with its bow leaving the water
6. Real sailing vessels are extremely unlikely to turn turtle and float upside down like in-game ships do

[Fuzzyhead12]

[citation needed]

 

I don't see where it's a glitch. It's physics. It's a pretty clear cause-and-effect relationship. One of the first things I think most people learn is the risks of trying to push a Trader Lynx too hard when attempting to capture it, or why it's a bad idea to ram really big ships with really small ones.

i want to be able to cleave a ship in half with my connie

[Ghroznak]

i want to be able to cleave a ship in half with my connie

 

Special steel reinforced prow upgrade for purpose of ramming ships in half ?

[kingck]

ive personally used it to rank up faster

get easy missions

flip lynx within 5 mins

repeat

???

profit

[kingck]

Special steel reinforced prow upgrade for purpose of ramming ships in half ?

 

Raming was an active tactic back in the day i dont see why not....

[maturin]

Raming was an active tactic back in the day i dont see why not....

Which day? The Battle of Actium?

[Slamz]

A kayak is the least stable boat ever invented by humanity.

 

Most modern boats are made with modern materials and air-tight chambers. A lot of smaller, modern pleasure boats are literally unsinkable to the extent that if you weighed them down, sank them 10 feet underwater and then let the weights go, they would pop back up. It's amazing what you can do with modern manufacturing.

 

Boats built in the 1700s did not have these materials or the concept of making air-tight chambers. When water gets in, you pump it out or you learn to enjoy swimming.

 

Granted I have never had the opportunity to ram 1700s era wooden ships into each other to see what actually happens but what do you suppose would be the actual result of a ship that sits higher in the water hitting a ship that sits low in the water, at a speed of about 12 knots, granted that the lower ship is also built out of wood, has a ballast that consists of stone and relies on hand pumps to keep it from sinking?

 

I actually think the game models it reasonably well. Tipping a Pickle, with the high sides, is harder than tipping a Cutter which is harder than tipping a Privateer. If anything, the actual physical damage of ramming is understated and the the ability to fix "leaks" is a bit too simple.

[maturin]

 

but what do you suppose would be the actual result of a ship that sits higher in the water hitting a ship that sits low in the water, at a speed of about 12 knots, granted that the lower ship is also built out of wood, has a ballast that consists of stone and relies on hand pumps to keep it from sinking?

None of the factors you mentioned have the slightest relevance to stability. A wooden vessel with stone for ballast will behave exactly the same as a vessel made from modern materials if the displacement and center of gravity are the same. The wooden vessel can downflood and sink more easily, but that's beyond the point when a collision shouldn't heel it to the downflooding angle to begin with.

 

Ram a wooden vessel at 12 knots and you will probably do fatal damage to the timbers at the waterline. But again, that has nothing to do with capsizing. And you obviously haven't seen at of the game's vessels flipping and turning turtle at combined speeds of 6 or even 0 knots, or you wouldn't be talking.

 

 

Listen, inclining a ship requires force, either in a downward direction on one rail, or a horizontal direction far above the center of gravity. The bow of another ship doesn't provide the needed force vector to incline, only to push laterally. When you ram you are just shoving the vessel sideways with your bow, quite close to its own center of gravity. And for every degree that the other vessel heels, the more force is required to heel it farther, up to at least 30 degrees (in the case of a dangerously unstable vessel). Meanwhile the ramming vessel decelerates and the force becomes less. IRL you would shunt the other vessel out of the way in most cases, and decelerate quickly. In the game you turn into a diesel tug boat and can push ships larger than yourself sideways through the water at 10 knots, never decelerating. 

 

I gave you a list half a dozen items long, all ways in which the game's physics are out of whack. You can go watch videos of frigates(!) climbing out of the water entirely, putting their keels on the decks of SoLs. Do you think this is "modeled reasonably well?"

 

 

 

 

If anything, the actual physical damage of ramming is understated and the the ability to fix "leaks" is a bit too simple.

Agreed. The ability to repair collision leaks should be nowhere near 100% effective.

[Jan van Santen]

Boats built in the 1700s did not have these materials or the concept of making air-tight chambers. When water gets in, you pump it out or you learn to enjoy swimming

 

 

 

The concept of air-tight chambers was well known in the 1700s, at least up to cutter size. 

 

Hint: they were called barrels. Eg in  risky offshore lifesaving (or wreck robbing) activities empty barrels would be fixed inside boats. You will find that even in naval fiction (Hornblower)

 

btw: While there are several incidents known of ships literally sailing underwater (undercutting with their bow) i have yet to read about a ship capsizing an other. The lever to do that just isnt there. One would have to apply force to a mast to overcome the stabilizing effect of the ballast and capsize a ship, 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Jan van Santen