AwkwardDavies

Okay, this dead horse can be beaten no more. I think it is time to close this.

I find it so easy to relate! When I was young (and oh, so very foolish) I did not think 'tipping' servers was warranted. Until, that is, I found out that not only was it an expected part of their income, but they are taxed on EXPECTED TIPS. The IRS (The 's' not standing for 'service' as they content, but something far more aromatic) has decided that all waitpersons are liars and so will be taxed on what the IRS considers 'fair' tips. Since then I have always over-tipped for good service.

... It was gaming with people who were so angry and offended by others who meant no harm to them... Sadly, this is part of 'net life these days. I play WoT far less often now for that very reason. I'm hopeful that it will not happen here to the same extent. ...Perhaps I would be welcome in PvP... You would be welcome on my PVP team any time you choose to attend. ...Then I read Sin Khan and I was elated. Such a way with words... I agree, he expressed some of my thoughts far more clearly that had I. ...At least 2 of the moderators seem to feel that discussions on this matter are not productive to I sincerely hope this post will not be interpreted as instigating discontent... I have received no disapprobation from the PTB (PowersThatBe) for starting this hare a'running ...Thanks to Mr. Darby... And my repeated thanks as well. ...It still seems to me that some players are trying to force their unwritten gameplay rules on others... I believe you're right. That is why I think this discussion holds value. So I suppose I will stay away from PvP and hope that issue dissolves in the open world. I really hope you reconsider. PVP is the best gameplay, and the best way for the Dev's to see how to adjust the final product. As I said, I would be most happy to play, with or against you, in any PVP. Thanks again Mr. Awkward for starting this thread. It been very helpful, offered brief relief and rekindled hope for the open world\ I'm glad this thread served a purpose. And I would very much like to extend that hope. I honestly think that these growing pains are a GoodThing and will only add to the ultimate goal of all players of good conscience. A fine, fun, playable game.

Grim, Thank you for a very erudite response. I appreciated every one of your points, even the few that I could not entirely support. Point 1 - Thank you. Point 2 - I'm actually happy to know that this is a known issue, and that clarification was in order. I feel the better for having raised it. Point 3 - I suppose that could be true, though my previous comment related to the Dev's understanding play style in order to set up programmatic limitation where needed is also valid. Inquiry 2 (also Supplemental) - Is it not a valid point that forcing the enemy to understand and respond to difficulties is also part of the testing? I don't say that - was the term 'griefiing'? - is a good, but that causing other players to have to do their best to get the win; most especially now, when it matters little, is a defensible act? Again, thank you for your insightful comments,

Well I'm sorry this has, in spite of my best efforts, resulted in bad feelings. I agree with Sin Khan. And I agree with Henry d'Esterre Darby. You both make good points, and you both are wrong in areas. Please, don't let my question come between either of you and having a good time. Yes, Mr. Darby, this is an Alpha test. We are here to help the developers produce a game that will be fantastic for us, and for those who come after us. We shouldn't be focused only on winning. But by the same token, different play styles will have to be taken into account (and thus, allowed) in order for the Dev's to know what programmatic constraints are needed to keep the play moving along in the best manner for all. Thus kiting is not 'bad' or actionable; whereas abusing another player because of his playing style is. None of which obviates my obligation to play in a way that is not bad-mannered to other players. To me, this means that my 'fighting retreat' (as I prefer to call it, as 'kiting' sounds too much like avoiding battle) is valid, and not rude. IF I am, in fact, fighting. (Which I have already indicated to be the case.) And yes, Sir Khan...'free for all' in context (even in the stipulated context of the original post) means that anything goes, within the limits of the game. The circle is there to stop all-out fleeing simply to force a draw. IRL I'd take my cutter behind an island and go for the shoal waters if I were being chased by big frigates, and to hell with fighting. That isn't a possibility now BECAUSE of the controls in place to keep us playing as the Dev's need us to. And any limitations programmed or requested by the Dev's should be met with wholehearted approbation and cooperation on every side. Have fun out there. I know I will!

Press away Grim! Please, you won't offend by discussing this to whatever end point. Why continue? Let me think... 1. Because it is fun. I play this game to have fun. It's a game. If it's not fun I won't be back, eh? So I had fun fighting to the end. Shooting the buggers that were trying to kill me, and making them WORK for it gives me pleasure. 2. Because it's more 'real'. I know, I just said "It's a game", but part of what makes it fun is the level of realism. It's like a movie. Movies are not real, physics in movies are laughable. And sometimes I have to say "I agreed to suspend my disbelief, not hang it by the neck until dead!". That's why I'd love to see a choice of 'hauling down the colors'. I fight on because it is my best choice, but I'd be happier to surrender and save my crew in the really bad cases. 3. To improve my skills. Running from three bigger, badder ships in a damaged frigate is a hell of a way to learn how to use manual sails for quick wearing, when to tack instead, when to flee before the wind. I figured out when to turn, how to hit best from various distance and position, and sadly...how to swim. And you're absolutely right; I posted, any heat generated is mine.

I understand your point here re: maximizing damage points. But again, not my focus. I'm playing because I like playing the game. The points are a nice measure of success, but it is having fun that means most, eh? After all, I'm not going to ever be allowed to captain a real square rigger. I had enough trouble with a 26' sloop!

Great discussion folks, thank you for everything said so far. I've learned a bit about how y'all think, and I've learned a new term (kiting) though I'm still not wholly clear on its meaning. Is 'kiting' to be understood as simply running away to stretch the battle? For instance, if everyone is far to the NW and I sneak far to the SE to avoid battle (at THIS stage of the game's evolution, clearly it will change as it matures) then I'm 'kiting' and being rude to the other players. Or is it any time I keep fighting with little (but not no) chance of victory? Which, as we have no 'strike colors' option, is certain to happen frequently. I'm going to stick with the first definition, running to avoid battle. My take on the multitude of responses is that no one likes the enemy to force time to expire by hiding. Or just running too fast to hit. If you're not shooting, then you're not really fighting, or playing the game in fact. If you are fighting, and have any hope of doing real damage then it's okay to continue to fight. Whether that fight is shoot-run-turn-shoot-run-turn..., or diving into the mass of the enemy loaded for bear is still debated. My personal preference is, obviously, the former. But I understand what some of you (e.g., Grim) are saying, and consider it a valid point. One I will consider when deciding what to do at the end-of-game when I'm most likely to go over the standing part of the fore-sheet. Also, after reading the considerable breadth of opinion on this, I'm quite happy I did NOT mention any player by name. Clearly he/she/they had a point he/she/they thought valid, as do we all. I certainly enjoyed this discussion (long may it go on!) far more than I would have so enjoyed a flame-war.

I sure hope that's the way it works! That's more realistic. Sometimes I'm a bit nonplussed to find myself in battle with everything from Cutters to Santi's. It would just not happen IRL.

I didn't actually consider it wasted time, as I was fighting the entire time (well, re-positioning too, but that's part of the fight). I have sat through the ends of games that were rather tedious, but I've seen odd things happen late in the game too. It's worth staying and watching to learn new techniques of dealing with tough fights.

Thrree points here: I'm not sure how the leader board works as I never refer to it; but it matters not a whit to me. Not saying it's bad if it does, I just have never had it on my 'radar' (if such an anachronism is allowable ) The second thing is a gripe I have about not being able to strike colors in the event you are completely hoplessly outmatched. There have been many times I'd have done so to stop the 'effusion of blood', but it's not allowed. Sad, that. As for 'clicking out': I generally stay once I'm dead, because I'm interested in how the battle goes (unless I'm stupid enough to die in the first few minutes, then I admit I cut my losses and run). My suggestion that he could have clicked out was based on the fairly clear fact that I had little chance to win. He'd have lost nothing by leaving. But that may come from me knowing just how bad my ship was handling...I assumed everyone knew I must be half full of water and struggling. Probably not, now I think on it. Thanks for your response!

Sadly, I was never at extreme range. I was taking on water and my pumps couldn't keep up unless I was on 'Survival'; therefore, spending half my time on 'guns' to facilitate loading and half on 'survival' to keep from sinking, and the fact that the other ships were in better condition, I didn't get far enough away to be considered 'extreme range'. Wish I had! I might have been able to hit them at distance and not die before them.

I want a picture of that guy in his cape! Good grief, that's a whole lotta a (damn fine) work!

Thanks for your response. I'm curious though...since as has been mentioned, there's nothing at stake yet but the battles, what do you think of someone dropping out if they didn't want to see the end? At least at this point in the game, one can quit a battle and start a new one immediately. That's what I would have done if I didn't want to wait for that last fighter to go down. What do you think?

Yeah, I was hitting them okay, and one of them was nearing the danger level on armor. I wasn't simply running, I was running and fighting.