Bull Hull

Well, well, well, here we are again. The players and developers are at a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option. That is, to paraphrase the Bard, “To tolerate cheating, or to not tolerate cheating. That is the question.” Last week I started a thread about the obvious cheating that occurred after the map wipe. Surprisingly, or not, a few people tried to rationalize ways to excuse or even defend the cheating. Several people even falsely claimed that I didn’t provide any evidence to support my public claim of cheating, supposedly because I didn’t provide some silly video. For them, apparently, a video is the only thing that can possibly qualify as reliable evidence and so facts and truth are not sufficient. But the FACTS I presented last time ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING. The FACTS I will present again ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING. The unavoidable and irrefutable FACT/TRUTH is that I did provide evidence to support my public claim of cheating and I am about to do it again. To paraphrase an infamous Mexican bandit, “Video? Video! What video! I don’t need no stinking video!” In other words, just look at the damn map because there is the frakking evidence. The evidence of cheating can’t possibly be any clearer because, again, the evidence of the cheating is right there on the frakking map and so the evidence is in plain view for everyone to see. Or, maybe I should say the evidence is in plain view and crystal clear except to those who are willfully blind to it, and except to those who lack the integrity to admit the cheating is happening. So, here we go again. Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital. Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic. If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating. Then some French figured out a loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic. If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating. Now, for the argument challenged, here is another way to see the argument: P1 (FACT) – Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital. P2 (FACT) – Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. Then the Pirates exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit. [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that. Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.] P3 (FACT) – Then some French and/or some Pirates figured out another loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. Then the French exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit. [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that. Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.] P4 (FACT) – By exploiting and continuing to leverage the coding loophole some Pirate and French players violated the new rules/mechanics of the game. And, they continue to violate the new rule/mechanic as long as they continue to leverage and benefit from their exploitation of the coding loophole that permitted them to do something that is supposed to be impossible. P5 – Intentionally violating rules/mechanics and continuing to exploit and benefit from said violation of the rules/mechanics is cheating. C – Therefore, some Pirate and some French players are cheating because they are clearly and obviously violating the new rule/mechanic. If this isn’t cheating then nothing is cheating. Obviously, I don’t think much about that bogus warning I got. If using FACTS to truthfully, accurately, and rationally describe reality is something that can get me banned then so be it. If this forum has so little regard for facts and truth and rationality that posters can get banned for presenting inconvenient facts and truths, then this forum doesn’t deserve more my time. The developers can either continue to turn a blind eye to and tolerate the cheating by doing nothing about it, or they can finally do the right thing by doing something meaningful to stop the cheating. Some players can, and probably will, proactively tolerate the cheating by rationalizing ways to defend it and by lying with a false claim that I have not provided evidence to support my public claim of cheating. The evidence can't possibly more clear nor more obvious because it is right there on the map. Other players can passively and covertly tolerate the cheating by saying nothing. And some others can, probably will, and should condemn the cheating and the toleration of the cheating. So, this is, again, a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option. I hope the players and the developers have the courage and integrity to choose the right path. I'm not even going to bother looking at any replies, IF this even stays up and open long enough for there to be any replies because the inevitable rationalizations to defend the cheating will be too depressing. Ditto for the childish ad hominem attacks that will follow.

600 players daily? Seriously? EXACTLY how many of those "players" are really unique individual players, and how many of those "players" are really alts that are artificially inflating the player count? Most of the players I know "personally" by speaking to them on TS have at least one alt, and more than a few of them have multiple alts. I bet the REAL player count of unique individual players is more likely around 300-400. 600 CHARACTERS daily is far more accurate and truthful.

WRONG! ! ! Per the new mechanic the ONLY for a nation to set a PB at a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the country capital. The French and the Pirates did NOT take the relevant country capital first, thus they CHEATED by exploiting a loophole to get and keep an unfair advantage. Nice try with the lame straw man.

The PROOF is the irrefutable FACT that they took ports that should have been IMPOSSIBLE for them take. In other words, they found and exploited a coding loophole to get and keep an unfair advantage. That IS cheating. What friggin more proof could you possibly need? ? ?

LOL Nice try with the lame red hearing about hacking anything. If you can't figure out how the players did in FACT cheat to take ports that should have been IMPOSSIBLE for them to take according to the current rules/mechanics then willful blindness that severe is incurable.

See, here's the deal, I have been gone visiting my daughter and grandchildren so this is the first day I've had a chance to post a comment. Here's another deal, the MOST annoying thing about this is the way the developers are STILL tolerating cheating. Here's another deal - my comment is focusing more upon the incompetence of the developers for continuing to tolerate the cheating rather than the cheating per se.

We the Players, as in ALL of the players and not only the players for whom the developers are obviously showing a bias, should be able to trust that the developers will always be fair and impartial regarding how they treat ALL players and ALL nations. But by tolerating the cheating by Pirate and French players happening at this moment on the PvP server the developers are clearly showing either a prejudice against the players in the US nation or a bias for the Pirates and the French who cheated to take and are now keeping ports that should have been impossible for them to take (e.g Saint Mary's and San Mateo). Consequently, We the Players who are not benefitting from the way the developers are tolerating that cheating have ZERO reason to trust the developers to be fair and impartial with how they treat all players and all nations. Are the developers tolerating the cheating by Pirate and French players because they are playing Pirate and French characters who are currently occupying those ports? Do they have friends who are playing Pirate and French who are currently occupying those ports? Are they indifferent to cheating? Or are they simply prejudiced against the players (except the alts) in the US nation? Regardless of the reason for the developers to tolerate this blatant cheating the developers do not deserve a shred of trust from us as long as they tolerate cheating. Those players are lucky I'm not on the development team. First, I would thank them and reward them for exposing the flaw in the mechanics. That is the whole point of testing. So, Bravo Zulu to the players who discovered and exposed the flaw in the system. Then for USING the flaw to cheat by taking ports that should be impossible for them to take I would take back the ports by switching them to neutral and I would delete all ships, resources, and structures in the ports they cheated to keep. Yep, I have no patience and no respect for cheaters, and none for those who tolerate (and who will now try to defend) the cheating.

Of course it is cheating. Per the new rules/mechanics doing hostility missions and a PB at a county port before/without first taking the capital for that county is supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE. Thus, VCO CHEATED by taking advantage of the coding loophole by doing a PB at a port where it is supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE to do a PB. By keeping that port VCO is CHEATING (i.e. taking an unfair advantage to selfishly benefit themselves to the exclusion of all other players) pure and simple. There is no other rational way to put it. Exposing the exploit was the right thing to do because that is the entire point of testing the game. So doing the hostility missions to expose the loophole/exploit to show that was possible, setting the PB to expose the loophole/exploit to show that was possible, was the right thing to do because that is good testing. Bravo Zulu to VCO for finding and exposing that flaw in the coding. But actually DOING the PB to take and keep a PB when doing that was/is supposed to be IMPOSSIBLE is cheating. Cheating like that is dishonorable and pathetic. That the developers STILL tolerate that cheating is incompetent.

A Front Line system in naval warfare is unrealistic? Nonsense - as in of course it is realistic because that is an effective way to simulate the nearly impossible logistics of securing and supplying a port on a long term basis solely from sea while that port is under siege from land forces and possibly under blockade from sea. What is unrealistic is trying to ignore the realities of how land war operations would, could, and did influence operations at sea and what would, could, and did happen with key strategic ports. Just because the game doesn't include land warfare that doesn't mean the game should totally ignore simulating how land wars and sea wars are interdependent and mutually supportive. Granted, the issue is could be significantly different for islands, especially small islands.

One big exploit unresolved? Well that is certainly a nice way to put it. How about some blunt honesty by saying that the developers are flat out tolerating CHEATING. The developers should have put a quick end to that CHEATING within 24 hours, yet after several days they are still tolerating the CHEATING. This level of incompetence is. . .

You conveniently ignore the fact that it should have been IMPOSSIBLE to set that PB per the new PB mechanics. The only bias I see is the bias some players and some clans and some nations have for cheating every chance they get.

The real point is that nobody should have to join a clan to get access to any benefits or advantages. Small clans should not have to merge with larger clans or other small clans to make a large clan large enough to get access to benefits and advantages. EVERY player - REGARDLESS of clan membership - should have equal access to the SAME benefits and advantages of every other player. EVERY player should be able to set up their OP production buildings and shipyard however they want REGARDLESS of whether or not they just happen to belong to a clan large enough to take and hold a particular port. The developers need to stop with the incessant efforts to manipulate us into hard core PvP and joining large clans or forever relegate Naval Action to an insignificant niche game that appeals to only a few hundred players.

In other words, the developers are concentrating more and more power into the hands of a relatively few large clans in each nation and so smaller clans will be thoroughly screwed.

Displacement alone is a terribly simplistic and arbitrary way to determine HP. HP should be a function of displacement AND how much of that displacement comes from its armor and its guns (i.e. how much of its displacement is due to its actual combat ability). Two ships with identical displacement should not have the same HP when one of those two ships has three feet of armor from its thick hull while the other has no armor because it is only a cargo ship so it doesn't have any more hull than what it needs to keep out the water. Not all displace is qualitatively the same. The ship with no armor can easily be sunk with just a few holes below its waterline and nearly all of its hull/structure (i.e. HP) still intact.

HP should be totally irrelevant to the rating a ship gets. In every rate some ship have the most HP. So, according to the poor logic of this HP standard, that ship should be promoted to the next higher rating. Using the number guns as the overwhelming consideration for how to rate a ship was good enough for history and so it should be good enough for this game. Making the Connie and her sister ships a 3rd Rate was stupid. The United States class FRIGATES were designed to be super frigates, or "Great Frigates" as the Brits called frigates with more than 40 guns. They were designed to be able to out fight everything they could not outrun, and to out run everything they could not out fight. All Ships of the Line had at least two gun decks below the weather decks for their main batteries and secondary heavy batteries with supplemental guns on the weather decks. All frigates had ONE gun deck, either below the weather decks or on the main weather deck, and they essentially had from 30-59 guns. Sloops of War (unrated) and Corvettes (rated) had less than 30 guns. Ships of the Line had more than 60 guns. The funniest thing I've noticed since this issue popped up is how the developers are trying to count EVERY gun, including bow and stern guns, to artificially inflate how many guns ships have. But the only guns that matter for a ship's rating are its broadside guns.